#26
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:04pm
Very well said touchme...
"Cor! me bones is weary!" -Mrs. Lovett
Black versions of Musicals — Page 2
#27
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:04pm
Umm. We already saw a black Charity.
Debbie Allen. And she got rave reviews.
Debbie Allen. And she got rave reviews.
#28
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:27pm
The thought of an all white WIZ makes me want to puke. Personally I am all for JCS with a black Jesus, conmsidering that if Jesus exsisted he most likely was black.
For the most part it shouldn't matter unless its something of historical context. I had a girlfriend who thought that Mama Rose could be played by a black woman and that the Emcee could be played by a black man. I just laughed at her.
For the most part it shouldn't matter unless its something of historical context. I had a girlfriend who thought that Mama Rose could be played by a black woman and that the Emcee could be played by a black man. I just laughed at her.
I got rid of my teeth at a young age because... I'm straight. Teeth are for gay people. That's why fairies come and get them
#29
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:29pm
Of course they could be payed by black people -- it's called "suspend your disbelief"...it happens all the time in musical theatre.
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'"
-- unknown
#30
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:32pm
That moves beyond suspension of disbelief. Historical context in the case of Gypsy and authors intention in Cabaret. It just wouldn't work out. Nothing against the performer but it just would not be right.
I got rid of my teeth at a young age because... I'm straight. Teeth are for gay people. That's why fairies come and get them
#31
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:53pm
You've jsut said the same thing again.
Why can't you suspend your disbelief to bodies? You suspend your disbelief that you are in a theatre, that these people didn't sing these songs, that they didn't dance in perfect unision, that they didn't have an archestra backing them up. Why not suspend the disbelief that their bodies didn't look this way?
Why can't you suspend your disbelief to bodies? You suspend your disbelief that you are in a theatre, that these people didn't sing these songs, that they didn't dance in perfect unision, that they didn't have an archestra backing them up. Why not suspend the disbelief that their bodies didn't look this way?
"Fundamentalism means never having to say 'I'm wrong.'"
-- unknown
#32
Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:57pm
We were kidding about Hairspray.
It wouldn't work at all.
It wouldn't work at all.
Updated On: 12/9/05 at 12:57 PM
#33
Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:43pm
Actually, if you did CABARET they way it was originally done (as directed by Harold Prince in ther 1960's), the Emcee could be black, since he wore whiteface makeup and white gloves. No one would know what color he was. He wasn't supposed to be a "real" person. He was a symbol.
#34
Posted: 12/9/05 at 1:56pm
I'm glad I got people thinking with my post. It was intended.
Non-traditional casting has to work in all directions... or it's just as hypocritical and prejudiced as "traditional" casting practices are perceived to be.
Everyone already knows what that's like.
Personally, I think an all white BROADWAY production (not grade school production) of The Wiz would be... well.. interesting. Probably not very good though, since ethnicity is written into the roles, dialogue and songs. Kinda like an all-black production of Brigadoon. Dinneh ye know?
But to DENY the possibility is... racist. To say that it would be lousy or ineffective is... a pre-judging criticism, since none of us have seen this.
But once again, we're talking black & white here... People seldom go beyond it. Why not other "colors?" Does no other racial minority have a voice in this?
Some of you would be very pleased with the quality of work I've seen at the East-West Players. Their all-Asian production of "Cabaret" with Jennifer Paz as Sally Bowles and a FEMALE asian (very butch) Emcee was outstanding. And so was their "Sweeney" as previously mentioned.
Non-traditional casting has to work in all directions... or it's just as hypocritical and prejudiced as "traditional" casting practices are perceived to be.
Everyone already knows what that's like.
Personally, I think an all white BROADWAY production (not grade school production) of The Wiz would be... well.. interesting. Probably not very good though, since ethnicity is written into the roles, dialogue and songs. Kinda like an all-black production of Brigadoon. Dinneh ye know?
But to DENY the possibility is... racist. To say that it would be lousy or ineffective is... a pre-judging criticism, since none of us have seen this.
But once again, we're talking black & white here... People seldom go beyond it. Why not other "colors?" Does no other racial minority have a voice in this?
Some of you would be very pleased with the quality of work I've seen at the East-West Players. Their all-Asian production of "Cabaret" with Jennifer Paz as Sally Bowles and a FEMALE asian (very butch) Emcee was outstanding. And so was their "Sweeney" as previously mentioned.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 12/9/05 at 01:56 PM
#35
Posted: 12/9/05 at 2:06pm
Very well- said, Best12.
Disney needs to bring in Pocohantas so we can start this whole argument again over American Indians...
Your Asian comment reminded me that I saw Annie once with an adorable Japanese girl...she was great. I've also seen it (illegally produced no doubt) with a boy called Andy (It alternated with Annie/Andy). Mercifully they played him as a male (though never explained how he was the only boy in Miss Hannigan's orphanage...
Oh, and earlier, someone mentioned Sondheim flying out to see a show... he does this often... he came to our high school's WEST SIDE STORY.
Disney needs to bring in Pocohantas so we can start this whole argument again over American Indians...
Your Asian comment reminded me that I saw Annie once with an adorable Japanese girl...she was great. I've also seen it (illegally produced no doubt) with a boy called Andy (It alternated with Annie/Andy). Mercifully they played him as a male (though never explained how he was the only boy in Miss Hannigan's orphanage...
Oh, and earlier, someone mentioned Sondheim flying out to see a show... he does this often... he came to our high school's WEST SIDE STORY.
"Cor! me bones is weary!" -Mrs. Lovett
#36
Posted: 12/9/05 at 2:07pm
sweenyfan---that's awesome! This is a man who really loves theatre... all shapes and sizes. God bless him.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#37
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:01pm
Speaking of Andy/Annie I once saw The Wiz with Danny instead of Dorothy and the trio of friends were all female. Yeah, that was illegal and kinda weird but ive actually seen worse.
I've also seen DAMN awesome JCSs with a girl playing Jesus.
I've also seen DAMN awesome JCSs with a girl playing Jesus.
#38
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:07pm
"I've also seen DAMN awesome JCSs with a girl playing Jesus."
Wow... that gets my vote for best non-traditional casting! Tell me, was Mary M. male or female?
Wow... that gets my vote for best non-traditional casting! Tell me, was Mary M. male or female?
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#39
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:19pm
Hmmm I was also wondering... how was she dressed at the crucifixtion? The diaper becomes a onsie? (Before you start at me about calling his garment a diaper, I'm joking... lighten up)
"Cor! me bones is weary!" -Mrs. Lovett
#40
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:19pm
OK...my only problem is that whenever I see a musical with a predominently white cast, there always seems to be only 2 black/africam americans in the Ensemble. And also an Asian. Not saying that the ensemble should be all black or asian, but it just seems that there is some sort of quota. And yes, I will mention the part of Fiyero, why could they not have cast a black male for the part initially? JMO
It was not a musical, but the Denver Center Theatre Company did A Streetcar Named Desire with an all black cast last season. It was quite good and haveing a black cast put a bit of a spin on it.
It was not a musical, but the Denver Center Theatre Company did A Streetcar Named Desire with an all black cast last season. It was quite good and haveing a black cast put a bit of a spin on it.
Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder
#41
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:38pm
If race isn't an issue in the play I think it would be fine. There were black productions of "Guys and Dolls" and "Pal Joey" back in the 70s, unfortunately they changed the orchestra arrangements so they were sort of disco, huge mistake.
Yes, we do need a third vampire musical.--Little Sally, Gypsy of the Year 2005.
#42
Posted: 12/9/05 at 3:40pm
Also, when Pearl Bailey took over the part in Hello Dolly they recast it all black, it worked extrememly well.
Yes, we do need a third vampire musical.--Little Sally, Gypsy of the Year 2005.
#43
Posted: 12/9/05 at 4:13pm
the great WHITE Audra Mcdonald ............I really didn't like how you just slammed this amazing woman with that kind of remark.
I believe if you wouldn't call her that in her face you shouldn't say that ignorant mess on here. I think it is TOTALLY ignorant for black people to call other black people "WHITE"....and I don't care how Audra McDonald acts...that doesn't define her as another color. I just thought that was LOWDOWN as HELL.
I meant this for "ThatBitc"...just to let y'all know.
Thats just something that bothers me with my fellow African-Americans.
I believe if you wouldn't call her that in her face you shouldn't say that ignorant mess on here. I think it is TOTALLY ignorant for black people to call other black people "WHITE"....and I don't care how Audra McDonald acts...that doesn't define her as another color. I just thought that was LOWDOWN as HELL.
I meant this for "ThatBitc"...just to let y'all know.
Thats just something that bothers me with my fellow African-Americans.
Facebook...ME !!!
Updated On: 12/9/05 at 04:13 PM
#44
Posted: 12/9/05 at 4:28pm
Hi DANIELM..... I think PEARL BAILEY didn't actually take over the role but the actually had a new production which was all black. Basically there was a white and black production on Broadway at the same time.
Can I also comment that if productions should be colour blind and it makes no difference why shouldn't they be gender blind?
An all male HELLO DOLLY? An all female "GREASE"?
If we expect the audience to suspend belief how far do we want to suspend it? I would love to play Dolly!
Can I also comment that if productions should be colour blind and it makes no difference why shouldn't they be gender blind?
An all male HELLO DOLLY? An all female "GREASE"?
If we expect the audience to suspend belief how far do we want to suspend it? I would love to play Dolly!
"Your eyes..... they shine like the pants on my blue serge suit"
#45
Posted: 12/9/05 at 5:34pm
ok, honestly, no offense to any one, but saying that it should be alright to have an all-white cast of The Wiz on Broadway is just stupid. Why would you ever want to take a show that specifically celebrates African Americans and completely cast it with white people? It takes a way a huge part of the original intent of the show. If they didn't want it to be a celebration of black culture, they wouldn't have been so race specific in the beginning!
It would be like if we had an all white Lion King or Miss Saigon. Some shows are the way they are for a reason. Don't take that away from them.
It would be like if we had an all white Lion King or Miss Saigon. Some shows are the way they are for a reason. Don't take that away from them.
#46
Posted: 12/9/05 at 5:43pm
Hi Theatrical Landladies (I think I've bought things from you on eBay), you may be right, I wasn't sure--she's listed as a replacement on ibdb.
I would love to see more gender blind casting, I've seen it in Shakespeare--there was a wonderful all-female production of "Much Ado About Nothing" at the Globe in London last year.
I would love to see more gender blind casting, I've seen it in Shakespeare--there was a wonderful all-female production of "Much Ado About Nothing" at the Globe in London last year.
Yes, we do need a third vampire musical.--Little Sally, Gypsy of the Year 2005.
#47
Posted: 12/9/05 at 5:49pm
You people don't get the point of Best 12's point (even though he later made it clearer). He isn't calling for a white production of the wiz (he even says that due to the show's content, book, etc. that it probably wouldn't work), he merely stated it would be interesting.
Okay my personal opinion can be summed up by saying that Les Miz takes place in France, yet Eponine was frequently Asian and Thenardier was played with a Cockney accent, yet that didn't slow that show down. Why can't we suspend our disbelief in other cases. Obviously shows where race is a central issue wouldn't work, but most shows it would be no problem. Furthermore comparing race to gender is as ridiculous since almost all shows have relationships designed a certain way, that would thus hinder a gender blind production. (Similar in the way that Ragtime and Hairspray would prevent a colorblind production). If a show calls for a straight couple that couple should be straight (unless there is no specific book reference to guy/girl). You wouldn't have a straight couple as Jason/peter in BARE would you?
Okay my personal opinion can be summed up by saying that Les Miz takes place in France, yet Eponine was frequently Asian and Thenardier was played with a Cockney accent, yet that didn't slow that show down. Why can't we suspend our disbelief in other cases. Obviously shows where race is a central issue wouldn't work, but most shows it would be no problem. Furthermore comparing race to gender is as ridiculous since almost all shows have relationships designed a certain way, that would thus hinder a gender blind production. (Similar in the way that Ragtime and Hairspray would prevent a colorblind production). If a show calls for a straight couple that couple should be straight (unless there is no specific book reference to guy/girl). You wouldn't have a straight couple as Jason/peter in BARE would you?
#48
Posted: 12/9/05 at 5:55pm
I've seen women play men and men play women very convincingly. I don't expect to see it on Broadway unless it's making a comment but I've seen it done in smaller theatres very effectively.
Yes, we do need a third vampire musical.--Little Sally, Gypsy of the Year 2005.
#49
Posted: 12/9/05 at 7:55pm
Rentaholic2 --- no offense taken... but something for you to think about as well...
Compromise is the solution. In order to GET something you have to be able to GIVE something in return. When you talk about taking roles away from minorities, do you realize that you sound exactly like the "white people" who complain about specific roles being taken away from them?
It has to be a two-way street for non-traditional casting or you should expect nothing but failure... and nothing, in return.
This isn't about "evening up the score." That's not possible historically, and it means what you're really after is vengance and retribution, not fairness. Who is going to agree to that willingly?
You have to open your mind to the POSSIBILITY of a white woman playing Glinda in The Wiz, just as much as an African-American woman playing Fiona or Meg in Brigadoon.
Compromise is the solution. In order to GET something you have to be able to GIVE something in return. When you talk about taking roles away from minorities, do you realize that you sound exactly like the "white people" who complain about specific roles being taken away from them?
It has to be a two-way street for non-traditional casting or you should expect nothing but failure... and nothing, in return.
This isn't about "evening up the score." That's not possible historically, and it means what you're really after is vengance and retribution, not fairness. Who is going to agree to that willingly?
You have to open your mind to the POSSIBILITY of a white woman playing Glinda in The Wiz, just as much as an African-American woman playing Fiona or Meg in Brigadoon.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#50
Posted: 12/9/05 at 9:06pm
I remember the only time I saw Guys & Dolls was with an all african american cast & found it quite enjoyable.
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