CARNIVAL: What do you think- Page 2

[dwwst12]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:35am

Ok, the more reviews I read, the more I think I really missed the boat here. Are we truly supposed to believe that she has no idea (until the final scene) that the puppets aren't real? I figured she was playful, had a lively imagination, etc., but still knew that either Paul or Jacquot were behind it. But then, that doesn't really make sense either, because she flat-out hates Paul, rather than taking into account his kindness and sensitivity while in character.

But as Jon says, who does she think Paul is? Why does she suppose he is teaching her a dance move for the "show?"

I thought I read that there was a tell-tale line like "It was you all along" in that last scene where she pulls the puppet off his hand, but if there was, I missed it. Can anyone confirm?

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:51am

Interesting that the same guy who wrote the short story CARNIVAL was based on also wrote THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE.

When I first saw LILI, the original MGM film starring Leslie Caron, the character came off as a little mentally challenged. I think it was the fact that she acted as if she had absolutely no clue that these puppets were just that: puppets. She acted as if they were real people to her.

I've never seen a production of CARNIVAL but I do own the OBC. It's a beautiful score.

[daredevil]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 11:39am

Like John Boy 2 and Gypsy 9, I also saw the original; actually several times. Gypsy 9's description is very accurate and is correct in that Champion's overview gave the show a strength apart from its music and script. Just to add, he created a very seedy, run down group of people---traveling around post world war I Europe (I guess it was World War I) surviving by the skin of their teeth. The lighting particularly was mostly dark and brooding which added to the sense that the Carnival was struggling. Perhaps in that context, Lili's relationship with the men, which might be questioned today, seemed believable. Maybe that is why I "bought" the show so easily at that time, that and the fact that at 18, I was a terribly romantic kid. If I went to it today, I would problably be flooded by memories, it's possible I would find the relationships in the musical a little too obviouss at this point, I don't know. But Alberghetti
(later Anita Gillette and Susan Watson), James Mitchell, Jerry Orbach, Kaye Ballard and Pierre Olaf, played their roles in a very adult, serious way. making it easier to believe in. I was always both moved and exhilirated when I left the theater.

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 11:55am

Anna Maria Alberghetti made a series of commercials as the "Good Seasons" salad dressing lady.

As a kid, that's what I knew her from, since they ran for years, long before I learned she was a Tony-winning actress from "Carnival."

Good Seasons commercial

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 12:31pm

The more I think about it the more I think that the problem is not necessarily the final scene ("It was you all along") but in the fact that if that scene is played with any sense of shock or surprise we do indeed end up with the "Lili is a bit touched in the head" reaction. Corny as it may sound, it almost needs to be played like a bad rom-com where the female lead comes to the realization that it is indeed her best friend she should be with, as opposed to the hunky, shallow, vapid guy she has been with for the entire movie (and even then you still might be stretching the boundaries of suspension of disbelief a bit).

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 12:36pm

I think they should write a brand new twist ending where we discover that Lili is a puppet, too!

[bk]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 2:41pm

I won't comment on those who cannot see beyond the generation in which they live. This show does not take place in 2012. It's always amazing to read this stuff and I'll leave it at that.

I will say that Miss Alberghetti is alive and well and still singing - in fact, I saw her sing Mira three months ago at a STAGE benefit.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 2:53pm

bk, for what it's worth it's really not that serious.

I remember Alberghetti as Jerry Lewis' co-star in CINDERFELLA (and in 1959's THE JAZZ SINGER).

Updated On: 7/21/12 at 02:53 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 3:04pm

Nice Norman Rockwell art of Anna Maria Alberghetti and Jerry Lewis from the movie CINDERFELLA. A childhood favorite of mine.

Okay, back to CARNIVAL...

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 3:19pm

She had a nice film career prior to Carnival and her Tony win. Then some great stage work afterward (including Maria on Broadway in West Side Story).

And she sold a yummy salad dressing, too!

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 7:07pm

Anna Maria Alberghetti headlined at the Fabulous Palm Springs Follies as recently as 10 years ago. When an interviewer asked her what she would be doing in the show, she replied, "14 minutes and not one second more. It's in my contract!"

I think she's worked all along in stock and in concerts.

[Fan123]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 7:30pm

"Are we truly supposed to believe that she has no idea (until the final scene) that the puppets aren't real?"

FWIW the liner notes of the OBCR have this to say:

"In the final scene [of 'Lili', the source material movie] is an important speech, not carried over to 'Carnival', which helps us better understand the the girl's relationships with the puppets and Paul: When faced with the 'Who are the puppets?' question, Lili replies, 'They've become so very dear to me, I forget. I forget every time that it's only you. Or is it you?' "

So it seems that Lili is meant to get caught up in the act and just not think about Paul's offstage a$$holery during the show. Probably she thinks he's putting on the in-character niceness for the sake of the show, whereas he thinks that niceness shouldn't be divorced from how she sees the 'real' him.

Paul's POV is rather dodgy of course, being basically "I'm not a jerk, I just act like one a fair amount of the time." I do like this show in spite of myself though.

[dwwst12]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 9:41pm

^^^
Thanks, that's an interesting tidbit!

[castlestreet]

Posted: 7/21/12 at 10:55pm

First and foremost- thank you BK!

Second- Gypsy9- I LOVE your posts about seeing some of these shows in their original runs- keep posting.

I have always found this show to be very charming and if a producer found the right female lead that could sell a few tickets in a small(ish) Broadway house, I would love to see this show revived.

Side note: I have truly enjoyed the Kritzerland release of the OLC- so interesting to hear the differences from the OBC- keep them coming BK!

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 10:21am

Hey Gypsy9, I totally agree, thanks for the posts. You and I probably passed each other while seeing some of these amazing shows in their original productions.

First of all there was LILI, the charmingly beautiful film with Leslie Caron. Not much music, a little bit of dance, but still totally magical (TCM shows it once in a while, but not on DVD yet). As a child, I was enchanted, and still am to this day.

Then the 1961 CARNIVAL!, reimagined by Gower Champion, Michael Stewart and the sadly underrated Bob Merrill (his NEW GIRL IN TOWN is currently on at Irish Rep, and he is far more than just the lyricist for FUNNY GIRL). It was a wonderful show, loved by adults and children alike, and won the Drama Critics Award for Best Musical in 1961 (and would have won the Tony, but opened too late for consideration in its own season, and then lost the next year to HOW TO SUCCEED).

Next chance I had to see the show was a lovely revival at City Center (many years before the Encores series) in 1968 with Victoria Mallory and folk singer Leon Bibb in the leads, and the wonderful Karen Morrow as Rosalie.

Many years went by until CARNIVAL! popped up in New York again, and this time it was a Roundabout workshop, with Sarah Uriarte Berry and Howard McGillin, who was quite amazing as the puppeteer. I know Disney was also looking at and workshopping the show, but the word was that they didn't think kids would like it or believe in Lili's naiveté, and would be bored by it.

Last chance I had to see it (I didn't get down to DC, pity) was the Encores production, which had its charms, but seemed not quite strong enough in its casting or staging to convince modern audiences that this show deserves classic status, and a full Broadway production.

Come on, you commercial producers, take a closer look at this show!

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 10:57am

This ones for best12 since her brought it up: I know that Anna Maria Alberghetti starred in several touring productions of WSS but have never seen any evidence or read anywhere that she did the show on Broadway. She's not even listed as a replacement cast member on ibdb.