CCM-musical theater- Page 3

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 2:41pm

I've never attended CCM, nor have ever come close to the campus.

But I imagine that if a student attended a college and was successful from doing so (or if they are currently attending and enjoying the program), they would be a little biased in whether they would like the school or not.

Updated On: 6/20/05 at 02:41 PM

[seasons of love]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 2:57pm

((agrees with ljay and aigoo)) This really is an interesting thread...

[actress_06]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 2:58pm

Thanks Aigoo for bring my posto to my attention. I wasn't trying to say that he was making a comment about overweight people in general, but I am a strong believer in the fact that an opinion is meant to be an opinion and a lot of what tuttle was saying SEEMED to me that he was trying to squash the opinions of others. Of course without ever having actully seen the infamous pamphlet I cannot make a generalization on Tuttle's comments and I am extremely sorry and wish to apologize if my previous post seemed a little close-minded. But I would also like to say that one of the reasons CCM has an emphasis on staying healthy, IMO, is that a career such a musical theater can be very strenuous and challenging and they are mostly looking out for the health and well-being of their personage. If someone chooses to interpret this concern as saying that "you must be skinny, is their own personal understanding and there win't be a whole lot you can change about that.

[birdlives]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 4:01pm

Aigoo, I don't think I ever asserted that everyone should think its the best school ever. But, I do think criticism should be based in something real, and Mr. Tuttle's opinions seem based in some underlying bias. And, I don't see it as bickering, I think it's just debate.

I think I've said a couple of times in this thread that it's not the end all be all of musical theater, and you could get a quality education at any number of other schools. It works great for some people, not so great for others.

And, I think I also pointed out that you can succeed on Broadway as a heavier person, and gave examples of CCM'ers who did just that. I'm not by any stretch of the imagination thin, and I think out of all of my classmates, I took the most diverse and interesting path to where I am, now. I knew it would be awhile before I got work as a character actor. Harvey is in his fifties now, right? In your 20's, for men, there is not a lot of work on Broadway if you are overweight. This isn't opinion, it's just fact. If you are a female, even harder. Just fact.

So, instead of waiting for ten more years before I became bankable, I became an award winning playwright, a director, a filmmaker and an actor in everything I could. So, your cookie cutter argument has not weight, Tuttle.

Again, are these people cookie cutters?
Sara Gettelfinger
Leslie Kritzer
Shoshana Bean
Lisa Howard
Jessica Boevers
Matt Bogart
Joshua Kobak
Justin Bohon
Faith Prince
Jim Walton
Michele Pawk
Lynette Perry
Andrew Palermo
Scott Hunt...

do you want me to go on, because I could name about thirty more off the top of my head that have given great performances in leading roles on Broadway in the last ten years. the cookie cutter argument has been disproven, consider it a case closed.

as for the weight thing...again, i guess you could consider advising people to stop eating McDonald's and to go the gym as radical and dangerous, but I don't. As for going to the spa, and taking care of yourself...yeah, don't see that as anything terrible, either.

for everyone else...my comments are not meant to put CCM on any kind of pedastal, and if you asked me about it openly i would tell you honestly what their problems and shortcomings are. the school itself is not free from sin. but, what they're being charged with in this thread is false and petty. i do feel positive about the school, so i wanted to give a positive response to the original poster. i have not been brain washed in any way. to allow yourself to be brainwashed is to be a weak minded person. it's easy to accuse someone of being brainwashed, and a cheap trick to attempt to appear to win a debate.

Am I proud of the place and the time I spent there? Absolutely. Am i proud of the people I watched go from being bad actors, or negligible singers to Broadway stars? Yes.

[jacqueline]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 6:59pm

a tad off topic, but... How is the BFA ACTING program at CCM? I rarely hear much talk about this program; most of the buzz is about the Musical Theatre program. I've heard that it's a pretty good acting program, but is it considered in the same league as Carnegie Mellon and Juilliard?

[WayWicked]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 9:38pm

Thank you, Mr. Tuttle for bringing the truth to this thread. It's too bad bird and actress are tying to deflect the real issue.

The issue that he has brought up is very true. CCM only wants the pretty, THIN people. Period. I looked at the web site link on this thread and it seems you others are just not seeing what you don't want to see.

I went with my sister two years ago to CCM when she had an audition. She was a bit overweight as compared to the other girls. When we she went for the dance audition, they were told that they would need to weigh in if accepted. The teacher looked right at my sister.

When she went for her voice audition, the guy leading it made a remark about how they had "fitness guidelines" for students to be kept in them program.

Ironically, a friend of hers who went later that day (and is as thin as a rail) was never told there were any "fitness guidelines". My sister also asked another auditioner that day. They were never told anything about guidelines. And..suprise..my sister was rejected.

I'm not suprised that CCM has this attitude about weight and being perfect. Most of the people we met associated with CCM were cold and pompus. After reading threads here and at other college sites, it seems that's the case.

CCM wants "perfection". You'd be hard pressed to find an overweight person in their class now. I could care less if they think they are the greatest program. The fact they are telling prospective students that the only way you'll work is by being thin and perfect is insane and dangerous.

Long live diversity!

Updated On: 6/20/05 at 09:38 PM

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 10:06pm

The performing industry (especially a field such as this. Instrumental performance is a different story) is an extremely judging industry. You can go against it all you want, but your involvement in theatre is all on how you look. If they're looking to cast an unattractive person, they will. A good example is the character of Fanny Brice. She must be an AMAZING singer, however, she can't be too beautiful. Hard to find.

There are some weight-specific roles. Those are impossible to avoid. However, those that don't have a specific weight attached to the character description are the ones that raise eyebrows.

Let's take Elphaba and Glinda, for example. Glinda falls under the category of the "popular-yet-sort-of-sheltered-blonde-girl".
Glinda also must have some sort of Caucasian look to her. This might be because of the image that the original Wizard of Oz movie had set. But that all comes down to the point where the casting directors decided, "This is her! This woman represents Glinda perfectly."

This is why an Asian-American or African-American or any sort of woman who looks really...exotic, will probably never have the chance of playing Glinda, though it may be their dream role.

Elphaba, however, is more flexible. Either way, her skin color will be green. This allows more flexibility into colorblind casting.



Now, skin issues have been discussed. What about weight?

Weight is such a touchy subject and society puts an enormous pressure that shouldn't be there in the first place. There are weight specific roles, as mentioned before. For those that aren't, most likely, they will cast the "skinny" person. This is because that people who are skinny are considered more attractive to the eye [to this generation] than those that are heavier (thus, the pressure to be stick-thin).

If you're attractive to the eye, obviously, people want to see you. People wanting to see you will rake in money, which is what it all boils down to, really.

CCM is a college that is revealing that truth to you early. Theatre is a very appearance-based field, and if you don't fit the description of a character, your involvement in the field will be very limited. It's really the way the you look at it. In your perspective, it seems as if they were cruel and demanding of a model's body. In other's, it might just be a way of preparing you for what's really out there. Either way, CCM is a school with a boasted reputation, nonetheless, and since the way that they educate their students adds more reputation to their name, they will continue in doing so. I'm sure they've had many complaints in their "standards of skinny-ness", but if they feel that it will hinder their success rate, they will not change.


In regards to your sister, everything happens for a reason. I had the most horrible audition today, but I think SOME good might come of it. Sort of. Maybe it wasn't your sister's weight (as you're implying) that wasn't the problem. I don't know. Neither will you. It's bad to assume things. I've found you only make an ass of yourself and the other person tends to look like a genius.

Updated On: 6/20/05 at 10:06 PM

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:31pm

OK.... ENOUGH.
I have read all the posts for this thread and it is funny that there are SO MANY OPINIONS from people who never went to the freaking school. THANK you Birdlives, for your expereince....

Let me share mine... Recent Grad (Musical Theatre CCM) as in the past 3 years............

I am CHUBBY. I am not Fat, but I am not THIN...... I wouldnt cal a size 10/12 Fat but I certainly wouldnt call it thin, and I survived 4 years there as did many of my other CHUBBY PEEPS, so as far as "CCM only wanting Thin and Pretty People".... YOU ARE SO FREAKING WAY OFF ITS NOT EVEN FUNNY.


Wicked WAY or MR. Tuttle - Im guessing you were rejected to CCM and cant come up with any other way to deal with your anger than to say fals things about this school that does have an I will admit a LAME letter they send out to applicants.
REGARDLESS... your insult of Cookie Cutter Chorus People couldnt be further from the truth.........

BUT THEN AGAIN I GUESS IVE BEEN BRAINWASHED TO.....

do do do do od od od od o ddo od .. ahhhhhh Im so brainwashed..... Cant think straight......

Oh gee. My minds back. Here is a listing of all those

Nice, Thin People without personality for their ensembles.......

I'll start with some of the older crowd then go to younger...
Marcia Lewis
Lee Roy Reams
Lee Wilkoff
Pam Myers
Jim and Bob Walton
FAITH PRINCE... yep, oh so personality-less. (you idiot!)
Kim Criswell
Jason Graee
Michelle Pawk
Lisa Howard.... another one of your anorexic thin people???
Tyler Maynard
Shosana Bean
Kristy Cates
Leslie Krizter
Sara Gettlefinger
Matt Bogart
Dan Bogart
Lauren Kennedy
Scott Hunt
Jessica Boevers
Tory Ross... a "larger" girl who is gonna be in the producers movie....
Vicki Lewis
Gabrielle Stavelli


I could go on an on... BUT Ive wasted enough time trying to explain to your ingnorant brain....

SO for all of you who would like to know.....

CCM is very competitive.... It doesnt come down to what you look like alone..... It is a package......
Most people at that school have LARGE PERSONALITIES......
let me tell ya.

Birdlives.. props to you for telling it like it is.......

Im sure we both would agree CCM isnt the end all be all school, there are many great theatre programs..... Is just that WickedWay and Mr. Tuttle obviously have a sore sopt for it.................

Again deeply sorry for your sister who is also "chubby" and didnt get in. Im chuuby and I did. Perhaps she wasnt as talented as she needs to be to be in the program...... That might sound harsh, but there are a number of factors that go into the mix.


Wow. Cant beleive I actually just wrote all that.

hope i set some stuff straight.............

By the way, Im so glad I didnt have to go to school with you Wicked Way and Mr. Tuttle, your crass attitude would have pissed me off for four years, then again you would have been cut with such negativity:)

Best of luck guys! Go Bearcats and Graeters (thats the ice cream that all the "thin personality-less chorus people eat" in Cincinnati.

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:45pm

I lost you.


And are you implying that just because we don't go to the school, whatever we say should be disregarded? It may be the most reliable source if you attend the school, however, we might have companions, siblings, other relatives that might've gone to the school and we've had a testimony from. It seems as if you're saying, "Oh, well you didn't GO to Harvard, so you can't say it's a good school," or "You've never BEEN to Walgreens, so you can't say if it's bad."


Sort of bad examples, but nevertheless, just because we don't actually attend the school doesn't mean that our "facts" are automatically false. That's a silly thing to believe.

Updated On: 6/20/05 at 11:45 PM

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:48pm

agoooo... your post makes sense... i was really refering ot Wickedway and Mr. tuttle ignorance.

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:51pm

no.. I am DEF. NOT saying that only people who go to the school can have opinions.... BUT for MR. Tuttle to say that his Chubby sister didnt get in .... therefore CCM must only look for personalityless thin pretty people is a terrible assumption. JUST like saying that "your opinion is only valid if you went to the shcool", would be.. Which I am not...

Mr. Tuttel is the one with horrible assumptions........

[briarbrad]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:56pm

Actually it was waywicked's sister that didn't get in, not Mr. Tuttle's. Try to get YOUR facts right when you are knocking people down for having unreliable information.

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:56pm

By the way. If we wanted a list, Bird and Singer, the alumni page at the CCM website is quite informative. Thanks.


http://www.ccm.uc.edu/musical_theatre/alumni_news.htm

[Amneris]

Posted: 6/20/05 at 11:57pm

this thread is very interesting but, also very funny.

[buffyactsing]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 12:05am

singer1002: Not to nitpick, but unless you are less than 5" tall, I doubt at that size you are chubby. Maybe not stick thin, but not chubby, unless you have an unusual way of carrying your weight. Unless you fall into the catetgory that considers Sarah Rameriez and Kate Winslet chubby...but I guess a lot of people do. I don't mean to make you feel bad to say I doubt you are chubby. I'm just saying, unless you're going by Hollywood Standards, I think you're probably on the thinner side of average.

Updated On: 6/21/05 at 12:05 AM

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 12:27am

CCM wants "perfection".

Heaven help us if we have perfect performers out there!

[actress_06]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 12:44am

The oprative word there is WANTS. That doesn't mean that they are going to get it. It's just something they strive for as should any university in creating outstanding performers. Another thing there is that "perfection" to one person can be total and complete tripe to another. It's like the old saying goes. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." but beaty should also be in the mind and spirit of the person.

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 12:47am

CCM does not want perfection. There is no such thing. They simply want talented, compelling, interesting people.

And yesss..... I am chubby, and I am not just saying that either. I look very much like a Sara Ramirez , but shorter and chubbier:)

ALLL>..... i am tyring to say is that the comment about perfection and CCM on ly wanting thin people is so incredibly bogus.......... and i am proof of that, as many of the people I listed ar as well.

AND i realize that there is an alumni page, but it seemed that some people on this post needed to be reminded of the "non- cookie cutter, personality filled people attended the school:)"

[jacqueline]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:11am

I posted this before, but it got lost in the hubbub, so I'm bumping it. Thanks!


a tad off topic, but... How is the BFA ACTING program at CCM? I rarely hear much talk about this program; most of the buzz is about the Musical Theatre program. I've heard that it's a pretty good acting program, but is it considered in the same league as Carnegie Mellon and Juilliard?

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:38am

About the acting program at CCM. I graduated Musical Theatre, but have several friends who were Acting majors. we work with them and see them a lot, and they are super talented and have done very well for themsleves since graduating. i dont know how it compares to other schools. From the shows I saw, I gathered they are also very talented and it was also a competitive program, but not as much as musical theatre.
just my opinion though.

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:41am

Did you just make another username to take off the 2?

[Broadway Style]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:49am

Singer1002- I am trying to take your posts at face value but there are so many typos that I am distracted. There's nothing wrong with typos here and there but your posts are littered with them and consequently come across as messy and inarticulate. At least the nay-sayers expressed themselves clearly.

Updated On: 6/21/05 at 01:49 AM

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:53am

As for my typos.... yeah I was noticing those myslef! I am a terrible typer... they definitly dont have a typing class at CCM:)

As for my name... I have NO IDEA when the "2" came into play. When I originally signed up, I just put Singer100 just cause it was simple and then this "2" popped up and now its gone? I honestly have no idea why ... and then the picture too, why does it appear sometimes and then not others???????

I'll try and be better with typos.... I just like to type fast and not proof read... obviously:)

[Aigoo]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 1:58am

Typos will get you a lot of disrespect on this board.


It seems like Singer100 and Singer1002 are two different accounts. I'm much too tired to try and explain cookies and account things so go bother Rob or Craig or Jose'. Or someone else that's internet savvy.

[Singer1002]

Posted: 6/21/05 at 2:05am

I really dont care if there is a two or not. I just think its weird that it comes up differently. I only have one email address, so therefore can only have one account!

But alas, I am tired two! 8 show week coming up:)