CHESS Lyrics- Page 3

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:24pm

siamese dream: Sorry, I meant the London version's Epilogue, called "You and I."

I like "Heaven Help My Heart" where it's placed in the London, when she's singing it about Freddy and not Anatoly.

I honestly think that this was a "Jekyll and Hyde" case where the Broadway version was vastly inferior to the original.

I never really liked "Pity the Child." It's nice to know Freddy's motives, but it's so randomly placed.

I agree that there are too many power ballads, hehe.

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:25pm

Please note this is about the original London Show, not the concept recording:

If one returns to the original London song list it was not so ballad heavy. Sure there was the somewhat akward Pity the Child--> Heaven Help My heart ---> Anthem sequence, but overall the show was much more group focused. While the original did have some story problems, most notably in the second act, I think with some minor restructuring it is the version which works the best.
The amazing The Deal/No Deal as original staged was a brilliant power play that really captured the metaphor that they were all pawns in a larger political game. Likewise, the original endgame (being a psychological war inside anatoly's head rather than the literal endgame of the match being played) is pure brilliance.

Also, I think it works much better to have Anatoly win in the end and return to Svetlana.

"If i had lost I would have been the same as Molokov..."

It provides for a much more tragic ending. They know the love is foolish and they are living in a fantasy. Their love songs are somewhat sardonic in that they repeat to themselves that this shouldn't be:

"this is the one situation, i wanted most to avoid."
While she is outwardly talking about being alone with Anatoly, she is also talking about the possibility of what could happen.

This is continued in "You and I:" "this is an all to familiar scene, life imperceptably coming between." They live in a fantasy and they know that. I think it is essential to the integrity of the piece that Anatoly wins and they split.

That's all i got. I could talk about chess forever. A truly great score/show that has never found the correct way to tell the story.

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:30pm

My main problem with the London plot is that with the Florence/father motivation gone, nothing is really at stake during the final chess match. I think the Florence's father subplot is a bit trite, but there needs to be SOMETHING at stake during the final game, regardless if Anatoly wins or loses, for the audience to care about it.

Freddie as a reporter doesn't bother me in itself as much as it bothers me that he's such a built-up character in the first act and virtually meainingless in act two other than to give Anatoly some chess tips and sing One Night in Bangkok.

Just FYI, Anatoly and Florence always split at the end of the show, regardless of the outcome of the final match.

Also... anyone have any thoughts on a Chess "dream cast"? Updated On: 2/13/07 at 03:30 PM

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:39pm

I think the story with her father can be easily put into the London show. It is brushed upon quickly when Florence does her "pity the child reprise" in "The Deal." It just needs to be introduced earlier in the story.I thought the way the Swedish flash back worked was wonderful. The music was so stirring.

As for them not ending up together, the last performance I saw of it (small community production). They ended up together...i nearly S&$t myself...

I think the Freddie as a reporter totally works, because he becomes a political toy. I think that could be made a bit clearer with a new song in place of the "television interview" song (even though I love that song "IMMM NO CRUSADORRRR:"), but i digress.
I think there is so much potential with the original show, while the newer versions just muddle and confuse the story more than anything. Furthermore the new amalgamations do not have the same push that the original did. The action just flew by so much quicker and the show had a shorter running time of about 2 hr 20 min (as opposed to the 3+ hours some people make the show now!).

[ashley0139]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:41pm

The problem with the show is the romance subplot isn't that strong and often takes the show in a different direction.

In relation to this, here's a question. While I have heard the OBC version, I have only seen the Concert version. I realize this is a very stripped down and sung-through production, but I thought the romance between Florence and Anatoly came out of nowhere. They have very little interaction until the Mountain Duet (save the Quartet, where they are fighting and insulting each other). Where does it come from? There might be more of this in the actual script, and as I said I'm just going off the concert. But if anyone could enlighten me, that would be great. Is there actually more to it?

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:46pm

I think the Freddie as a reporter totally works, because he becomes a political toy.

I agree that it works to have him as a reporter. I just find it... strange? not quite right? that Freddie is given so much build-up as a character in the first act and then suddenly reduced to this pawn of a reporter in the second. I don't want to say that it lets down the audience's expectation to see him less of a main character, because he's not exactly someone you want to hear more from, but it's a bit bizarre.

I think there is so much potential with the original show, while the newer versions just muddle and confuse the story more than anything.

I agree with that overall, but still think the London version needs work. I think it's the best overall production that has been done, plot-wise, but someone just needs to overhaul certain aspects of the book and make it on the same level of the brilliant music.

I think there is so much potential with the original show, while the newer versions just muddle and confuse the story more than anything.

To be honest, I'm not sure - I'd imagine there is more dialogue involved between Anatoly and Florence pre-Mountain Duet in non-concert versions, although I don't know for certain. I do know that there is more Florence/Freddie dialogue that shows why she'd be so eager to leave the relationship. The song "How Many Women" in the original Broadway production does a good job at exemplifying this. I also think there are some signs of flirting between Anatoly and Florence during the Quartet, but they're not overt, and I could see why someone seems to think the romance comes out of nowhere.

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 3:51pm

The literally three dimensional nature of Chess with its different sub plots that serves as metaphors for each other is what makes it such an intriguing musical to me, together with the wonderful music and witty lyrics. Ignore one of the sub plots and it becomes a much weaker musical.

Updated On: 2/13/07 at 03:51 PM

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 4:23pm

I think the buildup of their relationship is there, but entirely contingent on direction. We realize, from the moment that freddie enters that it isn't exactly the healthiest relationship. The quartet is the first moment when they flirt and i think that just get's lost in the counterpoint somewhat. I think if effectively staged it can be conveyed.

I agree when they meet in "Mountain Duet" it almost seems it is the first time they have ever talked and all of a sudden they are in love! I like the way the original London (I sound like a broken record) made the "mountain duet" more of a playful flirtation, with Tommy yodeling on the G, rather than a true-blue "I am madly in love with you" song.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 6:09pm

sweeedboy, I agree with a lot of what you said re: the London production being the strongest version of the show. Most attempts to "fix" this version have gone entirely the wrong direction, so if changes are to be made with the base of the show left intact (that is, barring starting completely from scratch and rewriting the book), the London plotline is where to start. London had its problems (lots of them), not least the three hour running time, pacing issues, and unclear character motivations, but there are a number of things that it did more successfully than subsequent productions.

Likewise, the original endgame (being a psychological war inside anatoly's head rather than the literal endgame of the match being played) is pure brilliance.

Agreed. My favorite version of Endgame, particularly in the staging (Anatoly at the crux of the chessboard diamond, seated at the table facing the audience/his unseen Soviet opponent). I think that it's so powerful to have all of the Endgame conflict be internal to Anatoly, so that it's not an issue of who the audience wants to win -- Anatoly can obviously win if he so chooses, which makes the choice carry more moral weight than if he were struggling talent-wise. When Florence and Svetlana and the crowd close in around him as the song builds, it's such a powerful image.

I also think that reporter Freddie is fascinating, in a, "Look what he's been reduced to," sort of way. I suppose I can see thinking that it's out of character for him to accept being relegated to the position of reporter rather than player, but he certainly doesn't have any less to do playing the second act as a reporter, and is still vitally important to the outcome of the game. The fact that Anatoly, now defected, is playing another Russian also helps to preserve the Western vs. USSR dynamic. When Anatoly and Freddie play a rematch, it's...the US vs. Britain? One wonders why Molokov et. al. are even still involved.

So, essentially, I'm a little in love with the way the London production originally presented things, although I fully realize that a lot of people take issues with it. It's certainly far from perfect, and maybe Chess will always be fundamentally flawed, but it's got the best chance of any production to be improved-upon.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/13/07 at 10:11pm

Florence and Anatoly don't meet until MOUNTAIN DUET. It's an instant attraction...which is fine, but weak when you have these large, complex actions going on.

The trouble with discussing CHESS is that there are so many recorded and unrecorded versions of the show, each with their own plot. My favorite is the original release of the DANISH TOUR. It is rather complete. And logically places PITY THE CHILD right at Freddie's breakdown, so we feel sympathy - or empathy - for him throughout the rest of the show.

I don't think the song is strong enough, or rather Freddie is not likeable enough, for the song to be a redemption song at the end of the show.

The shows biggest problem is focus. People always complain when major characters are introduced late in the show. Svetlana comes in so late, it's a pity.

But then we have Florence and Freddie to begin with. Then Anatoly comes in. ACT I closes with Anatoly singing the big song. So the natural thing to think is the show will continue with Anatoly, and the effects of his decision.

Then Freddie comes back and starts making some more Or is the point you aren't on anyone's side? I've always felt most for Florence, especially with the father subplot that is always awkwardly pushed.

LES MISERABLES is smart, because it follows Valjean. Yes, it occasionally goes off on a tangent, but always returns to Valjean.

I think Chess would benefit if it follows Florence, who is at the heart of everything - the love triangle, East/West Relations, her father...not to mention, she's an extremely interesting character. In that case, ANTHEM needs to revolve around Anatoly going to Florence, among many other things.

ETA: Just read siren's post above mine, which is very interesting re: Anatoly. And I just want to add that these can all be achieved, while still focusing on the particular struggle of one character. I didn't mean to say it is all about Florence...or all about Anatoly...but that there needs to be a through-line to take us from Act I, Scene I to the final scene of the show.
Updated On: 2/13/07 at 10:11 PM

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 2/14/07 at 6:23am

I think that Svetlana and her late entry into the show has a point. She is the fourth player who shakes the geometry and ends the triangular romantic drama. One naturally identifies with the main good characters in a drama and here in Chess one wants what's good for Anatoly and Florence, as well as Freddy for my part, but his happiness is not to be found in his current relationship. But then suddenly a fourth character enters the stage. Anatoly's cheataned wife. And since she is portrayed as a good nature the drama suddenly becomes more complex and the outcome that one wishes for is less clear. Then their son is introduced and he becomes the straw that breaks the camels back or with a chess metaphor, the pawn that defeats the king.

Posted: 2/14/07 at 9:04am

Then their son is introduced and he becomes the straw that breaks the camels back or with a chess metaphor, the pawn that defeats the king.

Are you talking about an actual son of Anatoly and Svetlana? I know reference is made to them having children - in some productions, at least - but I'm pretty sure their son is never introduced specifically to us.

Agreed about Svetlana's late entry to the show. I just wish we were given a bit more information about her, along with her relationship with Anatoly.

[sweeedboy]

Posted: 2/15/07 at 9:16am

Alas, this is one of the problems when discussing Chess. There are just too many distinct versions. I personally have about 24 different versions on some magic format that let's me listen to them whenever i place them in a cd player...not to say I have an illegal copy..

To clear up some points above:

The danish recording is actually the complete original London score in order.

I don't remember the original London being close to three hours!? I thought it was only about 2.5. I know BWAY was plagued by runtime often treading above 3.5. At one point they cut 'someone else's story' to try to save on running time, didn't they?

In the Swedish version Anatoly had a son that you actually saw, but in most other versions children are mentioned.

I don't agree that the focus should be placed on Florence. I think the focus should be placed on Anatoly, afterall the climax of the show (endgame) is pretty much his psychological war. The swedish version put a lot more emphasis on Florence, as did the broadway. I think she is integral and a huge force, but it is anatoly's story. But maybe i am just baised because he is my dream role

[Lorelai]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 4:54pm

"Did anyone else see this concert performance of Chess? I think it was in 2003. If you did, what did you think of Josh Groban's version of 'Anthem?' I mean, if you don't like him that's okay, but I thought his take on it was really powerful. And Julia Murney was so good as Florence! Finally, Sutton Foster's rendition of "Someone Else's Story" was just beautiful!"


I saw it. Loved everything about it. I think to point out that it was a concert performance is very important esp. if people are going to comment on some of the acting (I won't mention any performer in particular). Personally, I think that was one of the high points life, theater-wise. I had the opportunity to see both the last dress rehearsal and the final product, the difference was amaing. So, in short. Loved it. Loved everything about it. Wish I could see it again.

[ashbash1990]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 7:41pm

i LOVE the chess lyrics... "you who thinks Chekov is 'king to G3'" hahaha... needs more productions, i think... it CAN work...

[Lavieboheme3090]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 7:44pm

I think part of the problem with producing it right now is that it is a little dated, but not enough to be history piece yet. I love the show, and hope that gets a production that does it right. I think that minimalism (sp?) is the way to go.

[SweMozArt]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:07pm

I would say that the cold war definietly is another era and therefore historical. The enemy of democracy and the western world is another and the leaders from the last years of the cold war are either dead or old men that play golf with each other. Some people say that Chess is dated because of this but I say that it's a perfect period piece that captures an important and eventful era in human history. With Russia being a democracy they even dared to write a new choir piece where the Hungarians sing about freedom and the struggle against tyranny. A song that should have been there from the beginning and which makes the current version of the musical more morally solid.