#1
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:07pm
Can and should musicals tackle the most serious and controversial issues?
#2
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:14pm
Let me introduce you to Mr. Albee.
ETA: My mistake. I misread the thread title.
ETA: My mistake. I misread the thread title.
"Winning a Tony this year is like winning Best Attendance in third grade: no one will care but the winner and their mom."
-Kad
"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)
-Kad
"I have also met him in person, and I find him to be quite funny actually. Arrogant and often misinformed, but still funny."
-bjh2114 (on Michael Riedel)
Updated On: 8/3/06 at 01:14 PM
#3
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:16pm
What musicals did he write?
#4
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:16pm
ABORTION
The Musical
The Musical
#5
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:19pm
They can and they have. Just a few examples:
SOUTH PACIFIC (racism)
CABARET (the rise of Nazi Germany and, as an aside, abortion)
LA CAGE AUX FOLLES (gay marriage and families)
FALSETTOS (see above)
HAIR (Viet Nam war, casual drug use)
PACIFIC OVETURES (the economic "rape" of Japan and its aftermath)
ASSASSINS (the point is obvious)
and many more.
SOUTH PACIFIC (racism)
CABARET (the rise of Nazi Germany and, as an aside, abortion)
LA CAGE AUX FOLLES (gay marriage and families)
FALSETTOS (see above)
HAIR (Viet Nam war, casual drug use)
PACIFIC OVETURES (the economic "rape" of Japan and its aftermath)
ASSASSINS (the point is obvious)
and many more.
#6
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:21pm
Ok i dont have time to put in much of an argument myself, but here it goes. There is definetely room for a niche genre of musicals that tackle serious and controversial issues in a non safe way. However there are problems with the format as compared to books and movies. The musical has to be presented by a live cast which probably wont take part if they strongly disagree with the message of the musical. Musicals that have been considered as controversial like Hair and Rent were probably not that controversial within the theater community. The musical aspect might seem as an unnecessary addition when dealing with serious subjects. On the other hand - music can of course convey feelings like no other medium. Dealing with controversial issues might also give credibility to the whole musical industry.
My feeling is that if you attack the right you can do a musical. But if you attack the left you have to do a puppet movie. And this is not only because theater communities in any country tend to be leftwing. Its also inherent in the views. Even if you are a 99% pacifist but realise that some times when the knife is againts a country's throat - then war might be the only option - it still feels very unpleasent to argue for that opinion in a work of art (because of the moral instinct against violence and because of all possible misunderstandings).
Obviously its preferrable to show both sides of the coin. A work of art must be allowed to have an opinion but on the other hand the audience shouldn't be lectured.
P.S. I thank the speeling bee for her help!
My feeling is that if you attack the right you can do a musical. But if you attack the left you have to do a puppet movie. And this is not only because theater communities in any country tend to be leftwing. Its also inherent in the views. Even if you are a 99% pacifist but realise that some times when the knife is againts a country's throat - then war might be the only option - it still feels very unpleasent to argue for that opinion in a work of art (because of the moral instinct against violence and because of all possible misunderstandings).
Obviously its preferrable to show both sides of the coin. A work of art must be allowed to have an opinion but on the other hand the audience shouldn't be lectured.
P.S. I thank the speeling bee for her help!
Updated On: 8/3/06 at 01:21 PM
#7
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:43pm
Of course they can, provided the creators are up to the task.
Unfortunately, few are.
A serious musical requires text that is able to explore all the themes in both an entertaining and thought-provoking way. They also confuse "serious" with sombre. A serious musical can be fun and entertaining yet still cover serious material. They also assume the music has to be "serious" and heavily classical/operatic in nature, which is nonsense.
Inferior writers are wasting too many good sources: look at PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. Wonderful music but lyrics so bland they sound like they came from an aerosol can. ALW keeps picking there interesting sources and assigning the dopiest lyricists he can find. I guess he doesn't want the text to outshine his music.
JEKYLL AND HYDE had the same problem. Fascinating source ruined by some of the most amateurish lyrics ever heard on the Broadway stage.
Unfortunately, few are.
A serious musical requires text that is able to explore all the themes in both an entertaining and thought-provoking way. They also confuse "serious" with sombre. A serious musical can be fun and entertaining yet still cover serious material. They also assume the music has to be "serious" and heavily classical/operatic in nature, which is nonsense.
Inferior writers are wasting too many good sources: look at PHANTOM OF THE OPERA. Wonderful music but lyrics so bland they sound like they came from an aerosol can. ALW keeps picking there interesting sources and assigning the dopiest lyricists he can find. I guess he doesn't want the text to outshine his music.
JEKYLL AND HYDE had the same problem. Fascinating source ruined by some of the most amateurish lyrics ever heard on the Broadway stage.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#8
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:47pm
1) "nische changre" = (I think) "niche genre"
2) There are dozens of musicals which have ably dealt with issues like racism, slavery, classism, homophobia, AIDS, war, drug addiction, poverty, corruption, xenophobia, and all sorts of social and political conflicts within a dramatic framework. In addition to those cited above, there's THREEPENNY OPERA, SHOWBOAT, WEST SIDE STORY, A CHORUS LINE, CAROLINE OR CHANGE, RAGTIME, FIORELLO!, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, HEDWIG, HALLELUJAH BABY, THE ME NOBODY KNOWS, AIN'T SUPPOSED TO DIE A NATURAL DEATH, PACIFIC OVERTURES, BIG RIVER, SARAFINA, RAGS, MISS SAIGON, JELLY'S LAST JAM, BRING IN DA NOISE BRING IN DA FUNK, and many others.
Through the years, musicals have been able to not only entertain, but also educate audiences and present important ideas and issues through song and dance and without being didactic and resorting to agit prop. There's a long history of this in musical theatre and oftentimes, book writers and composers have been able to deftly deliver potent and important messages while still staying true to their primary mission which is to entertain.
2) There are dozens of musicals which have ably dealt with issues like racism, slavery, classism, homophobia, AIDS, war, drug addiction, poverty, corruption, xenophobia, and all sorts of social and political conflicts within a dramatic framework. In addition to those cited above, there's THREEPENNY OPERA, SHOWBOAT, WEST SIDE STORY, A CHORUS LINE, CAROLINE OR CHANGE, RAGTIME, FIORELLO!, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF, HEDWIG, HALLELUJAH BABY, THE ME NOBODY KNOWS, AIN'T SUPPOSED TO DIE A NATURAL DEATH, PACIFIC OVERTURES, BIG RIVER, SARAFINA, RAGS, MISS SAIGON, JELLY'S LAST JAM, BRING IN DA NOISE BRING IN DA FUNK, and many others.
Through the years, musicals have been able to not only entertain, but also educate audiences and present important ideas and issues through song and dance and without being didactic and resorting to agit prop. There's a long history of this in musical theatre and oftentimes, book writers and composers have been able to deftly deliver potent and important messages while still staying true to their primary mission which is to entertain.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#9
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:47pm
Jekyll and Hyde had about the worst book I have ever sat through and it's got those "this is the moment" broken record lyrics that should be taken out and shot.
That said, they got incredible talent to sing it, including Bob C.
That said, they got incredible talent to sing it, including Bob C.
#10
Posted: 8/3/06 at 1:51pm
The theatre always tackles controversial issues. Heck, Wicked is filled with political undertones. And the subject matter of The Color Purple...well, it's obvious that even though the logo has two girls playing pattycake, this ain't a show for kids. If they really want to push the button, they should do Brokeback Mountain as a musical. I'm not kidding.
Now here's the joke:
The most controversial topic that In My Life covered was how to write a bad show. And it succeeded.
Now here's the joke:
The most controversial topic that In My Life covered was how to write a bad show. And it succeeded.
Butters, go buy World of Warcraft, install it on your computer, and join the online sensation before we all murder you.
--Cartman: South Park
ATTENTION FANS: I will be played by James Barbour in the upcoming musical, "BroadwayWorld: The Musical."
#11
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:05pm
Yeah um you're assuming that the business of acting is politically charged. It's not. While there's politics within the business, no one is going to ONLY take jobs where characters are desirable people and socio-politically correct. I mean c'mon, people have played racists, fascists, whores, murders, child molestors and witches. I can safely say that most actors aren't any of these things (some may be whores). So it has nothing to do with left or right. Carolee Carmello played a pentacostal evangelist. I would think that's pretty right-winged. It doesn't mean you subscribe to that belief system. Hence the word...acting.
I a
I a
#12
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:05pm
Yeah um you're assuming that the business of acting is politically charged. It's not. While there's politics within the business, no one is going to ONLY take jobs where characters are desirable people and socio-politically correct. I mean c'mon, people have played racists, fascists, whores, murders, child molestors and witches. I can safely say that most actors aren't any of these things (some may be whores). So it has nothing to do with left or right. Carolee Carmello played a pentacostal evangelist. I would think that's pretty right-winged. It doesn't mean you subscribe to that belief system. Hence the word...acting.
I also
I also
#13
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:05pm
Yeah um you're assuming that the business of acting is politically charged. It's not. While there's politics within the business, no one is going to ONLY take jobs where characters are desirable people and socio-politically correct. I mean c'mon, people have played racists, fascists, whores, murders, child molestors and witches. I can safely say that most actors aren't any of these things (some may be whores). So it has nothing to do with left or right. Carolee Carmello played a pentacostal evangelist. I would think that's pretty right-winged. It doesn't mean you subscribe to that belief system. Hence the word...acting.
I also don't
I also don't
#14
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:05pm
Yeah um you're assuming that the business of acting is politically charged. It's not. While there's politics within the business, no one is going to ONLY take jobs where characters are desirable people and socio-politically correct. I mean c'mon, people have played racists, fascists, whores, murders, child molestors and witches. I can safely say that most actors aren't any of these things (some may be whores). So it has nothing to do with left or right. Carolee Carmello played a pentacostal evangelist. I would think that's pretty right-winged. It doesn't mean you subscribe to that belief system. Hence the word...acting.
I also don't really
I also don't really
#15
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:05pm
Yeah um you're assuming that the business of acting is politically charged. It's not. While there's politics within the business, no one is going to ONLY take jobs where characters are desirable people and socio-politically correct. I mean c'mon, people have played racists, fascists, whores, murders, child molestors and witches. I can safely say that most actors aren't any of these things (some may be whores). So it has nothing to do with left or right. Carolee Carmello played a pentacostal evangelist. I would think that's pretty right-winged. It doesn't mean you subscribe to that belief system. Hence the word...acting.
I also don't really think...ok BWW can suck it. This happens all the time
I also don't really think...ok BWW can suck it. This happens all the time
Updated On: 8/3/06 at 02:05 PM
#16
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:08pm
what are you doing? internet turrets?
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
Updated On: 8/3/06 at 02:08 PM
#17
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:11pm
BWW did it! I swear...
#18
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:12pm
Didn't the 1986 flop INTO THE LIGHT tackle a controversial issue?
#19
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:12pm
it's cuz you're black.
now THAT'S controversial.
now THAT'S controversial.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
#20
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:14pm
Controversial issues are what make broadway shows so real and so wonderful. To watch performers tackle such salient issues can be extremely entertaining and moving.
#21
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:15pm
Well, there is a difference between the actions and views of a character in a musical and the underlining message of the musical. Lets say that there were two musicals about George Bush. One strongly critical and one favourable. I bet that Sean Penn would dream to play George Bush in the first one but not in the other one. On the other hand i dont think Schwarzenegger wold take part in the first one.
And in a way it is understandable since the actors are likely to be connected with the views of the movie or musical. And of course they lend support to the views of the creator by taking part.
And in a way it is understandable since the actors are likely to be connected with the views of the movie or musical. And of course they lend support to the views of the creator by taking part.
Updated On: 8/3/06 at 02:15 PM
#22
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:16pm
I don't think anyone's mentioned "Parade" yet...
"Abortion: The Musical," he he. leon, you funny.
"Abortion: The Musical," he he. leon, you funny.
#23
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:22pm
I think Sean Penn would act in the one offering more money.
he's acting, not sharing his political viewpoints through a character, and if he is, he should be ashamed. you should never use the theatre for therapy or for your own thoughts or views.
he's acting, not sharing his political viewpoints through a character, and if he is, he should be ashamed. you should never use the theatre for therapy or for your own thoughts or views.
"I'm an American, Damnit!!! And if it's three things I don't believe in, it's quitting and math."
#24
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:24pm
"you should never use the theatre for therapy or for your own thoughts or views."
Does that norm include the creators of art?
Does that norm include the creators of art?
#25
Posted: 8/3/06 at 2:31pm
"There is definetely room for a niche genre of musicals that tackle serious and controversial issues in a non safe way."
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
"Non-safe" is only a perception. When South Pacific was in its creative phase, it was very daring for them to include a song like "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught" in a Broadway musical. They were advised to cut it to avoid the controversy. Today it may seem "non-safe" to you, and TIME and TIMING have a lot to do with what is "safe" and "non-safe."
So I think you're using a very vague, sliding scale to judge both past and current works.
What is risky today may be "old hat" and "overdone" tomorrow, in other words.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
"Non-safe" is only a perception. When South Pacific was in its creative phase, it was very daring for them to include a song like "You've Got To Be Carefully Taught" in a Broadway musical. They were advised to cut it to avoid the controversy. Today it may seem "non-safe" to you, and TIME and TIMING have a lot to do with what is "safe" and "non-safe."
So I think you're using a very vague, sliding scale to judge both past and current works.
What is risky today may be "old hat" and "overdone" tomorrow, in other words.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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