#26
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:10pm
oh matty you look just like jake_g
But I won't live alone in a house of regret.
Caroline- I can't, I just can't!!! — Page 2
#27
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:10pm
well, babee, YOU wanted to think! MattG has just given it to ya!
#28
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:19pm
Matt_G's given it to a lot of people.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#29
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:26pm
"No hero would treat a child the way she treated that boy."
I totally and completely disagree. Idealized heroes in comic books and fantasy stories are usually perfect in every way with no flaws and shortcomings of any kind. Real-life heroes are flawed individuals with real problems and real obstacles who make sometimes make mistakes and hurt the people they care about (and care about them), but yet in spite of all that, sacrifice of themselves and manage to still do good, even great things that make the lives of those they touch somehow better.
George Washington was a slave owner (as were most of the founding fathers), FDR, Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy were philanderers, Winston Churchill was a drunk and philanderer and hated small children, but most would still call these men heroes despite those aspects of their lives which were less than admirable and hurt others. Caroline didn't love Noah, but she never really hurt him by refusing to be his surrogate mother (she had three children of her own at home to worry about). Frankly, by refusing to take the mother's place, she made it possible for Noah to begin bonding with Rose his stepmother as we see happening by the musical's end.
While most fictional maids would just bend over backwards to luuuuuv that little white boy, Caroline is a much more true to life character (based on the maid who helped raise Kushner and his brother, for whom he has real genuine affection for to this day and brought up to see the show opening night) -- in other words, she ain't Beulah and isn't trying to be anybody's Mammy. Perhaps, it would have been more comforting for the white folks in the audience if she were, but thank GOD in 2004, we've finally gotten to the point where she doesn't have to be, and we can have a domestic character who actually loves her own children more than the white children her job requires her to watch. Those are the children she's sacrificing her own life and happiness for and that's what makes her a hero.
I totally and completely disagree. Idealized heroes in comic books and fantasy stories are usually perfect in every way with no flaws and shortcomings of any kind. Real-life heroes are flawed individuals with real problems and real obstacles who make sometimes make mistakes and hurt the people they care about (and care about them), but yet in spite of all that, sacrifice of themselves and manage to still do good, even great things that make the lives of those they touch somehow better.
George Washington was a slave owner (as were most of the founding fathers), FDR, Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy were philanderers, Winston Churchill was a drunk and philanderer and hated small children, but most would still call these men heroes despite those aspects of their lives which were less than admirable and hurt others. Caroline didn't love Noah, but she never really hurt him by refusing to be his surrogate mother (she had three children of her own at home to worry about). Frankly, by refusing to take the mother's place, she made it possible for Noah to begin bonding with Rose his stepmother as we see happening by the musical's end.
While most fictional maids would just bend over backwards to luuuuuv that little white boy, Caroline is a much more true to life character (based on the maid who helped raise Kushner and his brother, for whom he has real genuine affection for to this day and brought up to see the show opening night) -- in other words, she ain't Beulah and isn't trying to be anybody's Mammy. Perhaps, it would have been more comforting for the white folks in the audience if she were, but thank GOD in 2004, we've finally gotten to the point where she doesn't have to be, and we can have a domestic character who actually loves her own children more than the white children her job requires her to watch. Those are the children she's sacrificing her own life and happiness for and that's what makes her a hero.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 9/28/04 at 03:26 PM
#30
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:27pm
Guess you told me. *slinks off*
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#31
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:29pm
in addition, she certainly did care about Noah.
"in the nighttime, my own time, i still think about you..."
"in the nighttime, my own time, i still think about you..."
But I won't live alone in a house of regret.
#32
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:34pm
I gots to think about rent overdue. 'Cause last week twice I bought ground chuck and for once I didn't stuff it full of two day old bread and fed my kids meat 'stead of meat flavored bread. Twice in one week...
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#33
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:35pm
now rent overdue, and Jackie got bad teeth, he needs a dentist, spectacles too...
But I won't live alone in a house of regret.
Updated On: 9/28/04 at 03:35 PM
#34
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:37pm
I swear to God, sitting in the theatre I thought she said testicles.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#35
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:38pm
I know I'm surprised about that - anyone else?
Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson
#36
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:39pm
i see what you people were thinkin about!
But I won't live alone in a house of regret.
#37
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:39pm
I can assure you that was the last thing on my mind watching that show.
"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."
#38
Posted: 9/28/04 at 3:40pm
And now I have to clean soda off the keyboard at my job, and try to explain to my boss what was that funny. Afterwards, I'll try to skip over that part as I listen to the cast recording.
I also must say that the music from this show has again made me want to learn to play percussion instruments.
I also must say that the music from this show has again made me want to learn to play percussion instruments.
Updated On: 9/28/04 at 03:40 PM
#39
Posted: 9/28/04 at 5:46pm
I played percussion for years. It is so much fun and very therapeutic. Of all the things I miss most, I miss playing marimba. I'm hoping to save enough to buy one someday. They're terribly expensive, but it has to be the one musical instrument most fun to play.
*sigh*
I need to get a cello, too...
*sigh*
I need to get a cello, too...
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#40
Posted: 9/28/04 at 5:54pm
I will never listen to that part the same way again.
I love how she says it. "spECKticles too..."
I think I understand how that line could be misheard now.
I love how she says it. "spECKticles too..."
I think I understand how that line could be misheard now.
#41
Agh.
Caroline is amazing.
eenuoughh saaaid.
-d.b.j-
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:15pm
Agh.
Caroline is amazing.
eenuoughh saaaid.
-d.b.j-
Vary My Days.
#42
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:19pm
In response to earlier posters- not every show is for everyone. I have an irrational aversion to Guys & Dolls, for instance, which many people call a flawless book musical. The important thing is that you really tried to listen to it with an open mind instead of dismissing it as over-intellectual crap from the very beginning.
#43
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:20pm
When Caroline's daughter lets loose at the end....WOW! And the young performers, so natural but still affecting. Not genius, pretty esoteric in places, but still a work of art.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#44
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:28pm
Why does everyone change their way of thinking the second Matt_G gives his two cents? I swear that no one on this message board has a mind of their own. They base their opinions on what several longtimers on here think. (Margo,Matt_G,Varley_
Gypsy - Betty Buckley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUN5XoB5vFs&feature=youtu.be
#45
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:44pm
Oooor, maybe some opinions are more popular than others, ChiChi. I liked Caroline because I saw it and enjoyed the performance. Then I got the cast recording and liked that, too. Margo's helped me understand the themes and details of the show better, but the preference is mine alone. A popular opinion isn't always a sign of groupthink.
ETA: And you know what else? Knowledge and eloquence earn respect. Say something and say it well, and people might agree with you. Whodathunkit?
ETA: And you know what else? Knowledge and eloquence earn respect. Say something and say it well, and people might agree with you. Whodathunkit?
Updated On: 9/28/04 at 06:44 PM
#46
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:47pm
Thank you Plum, I knew you were on my "Don't Kill" list for a reason.
KIDDING, I'm kidding.
KIDDING, I'm kidding.
#47
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:52pm
ChiChi, That's an interesting statement considering many people on this board actually saw the show and loved it(myself included), thus enabling them to form an independent opinion of the show.
But since we don't have minds of our own, I'll just say that Plum pretty much said it all.
But since we don't have minds of our own, I'll just say that Plum pretty much said it all.
#48
Posted: 9/28/04 at 6:56pm
i posted about loving this show a long time ago, after it first opened. That was before i had read anyone else's reaction. If anything, reading any "gush" about a show (here, NY Times, national media) makes me MORE analytical of it. And the reverse is true: if reactions seem dismissive, i look for the positive. i can see where some of the criticism of CAROLINE comes from, but for me the sum total is a strong musical theatre piece. Notice, though, i didn't say musical comedy.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#49
Posted: 9/28/04 at 7:04pm
it's fine..if someone like ChiChi who has been here about 6 weeks, wants to come on here and judge me and my theatrical opinion then that's cool. what do i know?..apparently Matt_G who has been here for not even 5 months is a "longtimer".
But I won't live alone in a house of regret.
#50
Posted: 9/28/04 at 7:11pm
Not so much a longtimer as a prominent poster, I think.
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