Caroline- I can't, I just can't!!!- Page 3

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 8:26pm

ChiChi wrote:

"Why does everyone change their way of thinking the second Matt_G gives his two cents? I swear that no one on this message board has a mind of their own. They base their opinions on what several longtimers on here think. (Margo,Matt_G,Varley_"


Ooooh heeeeells no. that's not true. at least not for me. haven't seen Caroline or Change so I don't have an opinion on it either way. But I do agree with what another poster wrote that not every musical is for everyone. I CAN'T STAND The Sound of Music and I'm sure the majority on this board love it to death.

Different Strokes for Different folks....

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 8:34pm

I have to throw my two cents in and say I don't base my opinions on other's. I have a healthy respect for a lot of the knowledge that a FEW of the posters have, but I'm certainly not going to base my own opinion on them.

[Testing1232]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 11:09pm

In my opinion, it was the best show this year. Jut my .02

[Unknown User]

Posted: 9/28/04 at 11:18pm

cannot believe I didn't see this earlier! i looooved Caroline and even started an 'official thread' i'm gonna see it in LA and can't wait. but i do agree, it's one of those shows you hate it or ya love it. and i know lots of people who thought it was/is trash and many people who thought it was great. i guess it just depends on what type and the reasons you listen to/attend musicals. IF you're brought up on all singing all dancing you won't get everything from Caroline, and the same way about singing dancing musicals if your brought up on darker, more serious musicals. Each to ones own.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 12:50am

I only wish I had a tenth of the power ChiChi seems to think that I (or any of the so-called "longtimers") have. There are no shortage of posters on this board who make it known loud and clear that they cannot stand this show (MusicMan, where are you?).

I first saw Caroline at the third or fourth preview at the Public and my initial post about it (on another board) was not a rave, but a recognition of a show that had the potential to be something very different, but very special. To be fair, that early in previews, the show was hardly finished and Wolfe, Tesori and Kushner were in the process of making major changes to it -- the opening scene was several minutes longer and dragged badly; at the point in Emmie's dream where she speaks of the statue coming to life, it was still being acted out with the actor playing Grandpa Slotnick stiffly roaming the stage in a tattered Confederate uniform like Frankenstein's monster -- a laughable misstep that was cut soon afterwards; and, most importantly, the final version of "Lot's Wife" had literally JUST been finished minutes before that preview and Pinkins was forced to have to perform it almost a capella with only a very spare piano accompaniment which provided the chords and the key changes (the start of the performance was delayed for a half an hour until Tesori, sheet music in hand, came running down Lafayette at 8:30 -- once she had delivered the manila envelope with the music, she came back outside and I overheard her telling friends outside about the reason for the delay).

When I returned to see the show again a few weeks later after opening, it had been streamlined and tightened, the flaws had disappeared and I "got" what Tesori and Kushner were trying to do with this show, which was different from perhaps any show I'd ever seen. The score which had been haunting me since that early preview (I had walked around my house singing "Nothing ever happens undergound in Louisiana, cuz there's no underground in Louisiana......." and "I hate the bus..." and "Salty Teardrops," holding onto the melodies and the lyrics in my head as best I could) completely came together for me as a full, glorious, brilliant score, full of motifs and themes and harmonies that worked together and in counterpoint to each other in ways that simply blew me away. Before the first act was over, I realized that Tesori was probably the most promising composer in the musical theatre.

I then started chatting the show up -- to friends at first, then on the boards. I always prepared people to go in not to expect a typical "MUSICAL" but a very unusual but intelligent, at times challenging, but ultimately powerful, engaging and very entertaining work of theatre. Amazingly, each of the dozen or more friends that I sent to see it (plus my parents and other family members) came back absolutely raving about it and lest you think they were simply being kind (which, trust me, is not how anyone I know operates -- if they don't like something I recommend, believe me, I'll hear about it forever) more than half of them went back to see it again (one went back four times; another two, three times).

I'm sorry, but I don't have the ability to make someone like a show that they hate. If MargoChanning has any power, it's to occasionally get friends and folks that know me to see things they wouldn't normally see, because they know I see "everything," know that I know their tastes, and because of that, know they would enjoy it (and I recommended Caroline only to the people I knew who would be open enough to go along with the sometimes uncomfortable and challenging journey the show takes you on - other friends I told to see Avenue Q or Wicked). Obviously Caroline is not a show for everyone, but for those people I know, they not only responded to it, it was remarkable how deeply they were touched and affected by it. I heard several stories of friends (male and female) still in tears five and ten minutes after the final curtain fell, who were so overwhelmed by it that they couldn't even speak for more than an hour later.

That's why I say that if you don't like the show, it's completely fine and OK with me -- it's not my job to convince you otherwise. But, for those I know who were affected and touched by it, it was one of their most memorable theatrical experiences.

Updated On: 9/29/04 at 12:50 AM

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 12:59am

*almost speechless*

thank you for being you

[sweetiedarlinmia]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 1:05am

WOW. See that is why we value the insight of Margo, ChiChi. We dont blindly follow her and others, but we certainly appreciate and respect the statements they make,even if we don't share their opinions always. Qualified, intelligent statements. Plain and simple.

[Plum]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 1:28am

See, ChiChi? Comments that have a purpose other than provocation will earn you respect. Thanks for that, Margo.

I got my parents tickets to see Caroline a few days before it closed. It was the first musical they'd seen since the whole family went to The Phantom of the Opera a few years back. That didn't go too well.

But my parents adored Caroline, and by my mom's account she couldn't stop crying for most of the second act. They play the cast recording in the family room now, and they're looking forward to the HBO airing. It was the first show in ages I could discuss with them- and with their deeper Israeli heritage, they had different insights into the Jewish characters than I did.

People who dismiss Caroline as all brain and no heart just puzzle me. That show moved people, a lot of them. And yes, I'm still sad it's gone. I wanted so much to see it a second time, but getting my parents the tickets instead was worth it.

[musicman117]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 2:04am

First of all, People are entitled to their own opinions and not everyone is going to like every show or say that every show is amazing. Margo and I had a conversation via message board about what constitutes a great show/ what is the best musical of all time a few weeks ago. I mentioned Caroline, or Change as a show that I am really looking forward to seeing how it stands up to the test of time. It has a powerhouse score, a pretty decent storyline, great characters, and a good message. I know many people who walked out of the Eugene O'Neill after witnessing this show saying that it was the best thing they had ever seen. But, like I said, not everyone will agree.

The reason I think it will stand the test of time is because of its power. It almost takes the structure of a Greek tragedy, (Caroline as the fated hero, the common appliances almost act as a chorus) and i think that this approach really helps the common man to relate to Caroline. The music is inventive and you really can't go wrong with a book by Tony Kushner.

But in saying that, how many people fully understand Angels in America right off? Sure many will admit to its brilliance, but how many people understand it right away? I think thats how it is with Tony Kushner's work. I think thats how it is with Caroline. There is a lot in this show to take in at once.... politics, race relations, social class, relationships between children and parents and children and step-parents. To sum it up, there's a lot more to this show than just "Lot's Wife"

Personally, I really like Caroline, or Change. I think that in the years to come, it will find its place in Music Theatre History. Like leomaxfrank said, It'll get the credit it deserves in about twenty years, and i hope to be around to see it get that credit. Updated On: 9/29/04 at 02:04 AM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 10:52am

Just to clarify, when I was referring to MusicMan in my post, I wasn't referring to MusicMan117.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/29/04 at 1:41pm

I'm still trying to figure out how Matt_G's posts changed everyone's way of thinking on this particular thread. That really came out of left field.

[TonyInATL]

Posted: 9/30/04 at 4:04am

Updated On: 1/17/05 at 04:04 AM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 4:43pm

I wonder if they ever got it.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:40pm

Side question: CAROLINE aired on HBO? I didn't know that.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/27/13 at 7:46pm

No, but that was the rumor for a while that it was going to be. Sadly, nothing ever came of it.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 5:48pm

Didn't look at the dates in this thread. Went to the last page and gasped whenI saw who commented. Then I smiled. Nice to read a Margo comment.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 5:58pm

Not every show is for everyone, let it go. Maybe give it another chance in 5 years. Sometimes when I revisit a show that didn't grab me initially, it comes up fresh and I get it. That happened to me with such an obvious masterpiece (to everyone other than me) as Sunday in the Park. So put Caroline away and then drag her out, with the script, and take another look down the road. You may end up with the very same thoughts you had initially, or not.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 6:15pm

Let what go? Who are you speaking to?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 6:30pm

I gasped when I saw Margo and MattG as well.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 6:38pm

Jordan, the OP.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/28/13 at 7:41pm

You do realize this thread is almost a decade old, right? Chances are he's gotten over it already.