Charity on Today- Page 2

[WillParker]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 11:53am

is the video of the performance online anywhere, or will it become available? i missed and am dying to see it.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 11:55am

That was freaking awful. She CANNOT sing (yes i know, she's giving it her all, I know, but kids, this isn't community theatre where you reward someone for putting their most into it. Its about talen), and Wayne Cilento CANNOT choreograph. Awful.

And to Gwen Verdon's defense, she is in her best voice, on the Sweet Charity album and sounds 100 times better than Applegate. The whole "Gwen Verdon can't sing", really has no basis at all.

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:01pm

Gwen Verdon is the most awarded musical theatre performer to grace the Broadway stage...what the heck are you talking about when you say she didn't have a Broadway voice? In what universe does that comment make any sense!

Gwen had a Broadway voice so did Julie Andrews, Barbara Harris, Chita Rivera, Tyne Daly, Carol Lawrence. Idina Menzel, Karen Ziemba, Rebeca Luker, Audra McDonald, Liz Callaway, Carolle Carmello, Sally Mayes, Faith Prince, Patti Lupone, Betty Buckley...get it?
Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:01 PM

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:03pm

this reply was to Justice , who said Gwen Verdon didn't have a Broadway voice.....People help me out here.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:04pm

YEah, trashing Gwen Verdon and saying Christina Applegate is better doesn't make you look too credible.

And yes, I am glad Applegate overcame her broken whatever, but is that really enough at this level of performing, to be cute and have a lot of gusto? Not really.

Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:04 PM

[Princeton78]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:10pm

I'm rereading the thread and I dont' think anyone is trashing Gwen Verdon or saying Christina is better. It's perfectly OK for people to enjoy Christina's performance. I know I did. She does not have a big trained voice like Audra, Patti, Bernadette etc, but she is trying very hard in the part.

Gwen does have a very distinctive voice, and one that may not have been terribly friendly to a Rogers and Hammerstien score. For the parts which she (divinely) played, she had a very servicable voice and I'm sure her acting and dancing were astonishing.

I think saying thet neither Christina or Gwen falls into the same vocal cagegory as Audra McDonald or Kelli O'Hara is being misinterpreted as Gwen bashing.

[Justice]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:12pm

Things are so misread on this board.
First of all, I never said Christina was better. Actually, I never heard Christina sing. So, I cannot, nor was I comparing.
Second, Gwen, in actuality, was not a "singer". She was a performer. The same way Carol Channing is not a "singer", but, also, a performer, or even Elaine Stritch. Bob Fosse even stated, once, that Verdon could not sing. If you listen to the Chicago Cast Recording, you could hear that it wasn't her powerful voice that sold her as a star.
To compare Verdon's voice to the stylings of Andrews, Lawrence, Menzel, Calloway, etc. is like comparing N'Sync to The Beatles. Either is not greater than the other, they just have different styles, and, again, Verdon's strogest point was certainly not her voice.
I'm not saying Verdon wasn't good, but for all of you that criticize Applegate's performance, were you even around when Verdon was performing on stage?

Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:12 PM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:13pm

I watched her performance on the Today show, and I still haven't heard her sing.

[rlbgbc]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:13pm

But how did Joyce Chittick do?

[dry2olives]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:14pm

What made Gwen Verdon a great musical theatre singer was her ability to sustain a character while singing. (and for that matter, while dancing) Her voice was small (dancers are trained to take short breaths unlike singers who are trained to take long ones) but she was great at phrasing a lyric and acting through song and dance. No matter what you're doing in a musical, you should always be acting while you're doing it.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:15pm

When I stated that Christina's performance made me long for Gwen I was refering to the entire package. No, Gwen did not have the most beautiful voice, but Mother of God on an Underpass, she sure knew how to SELL it and use her distinct vocal qualities to enhance the character. Watch her performance on the Ed Sullivan DVD and you will see what I mean. She was the real thing.

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:16pm

This is in reply to Justice only.

No. What you said and the post is still there, was that Gwen did not have a Broadway quality voice. I never said you trashed Christina. I took exception to your comments on Ms Verdon's un-Broadway voice. So I listed many different female musical performers with vastly different voices who have been on Broadway. I was not comparing mcdonald to verdon.


Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:16 PM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:18pm

I'm pulling for her too (and therefore pulling for everyone who pays 90 bucks to see her show).

But I thought everything about the Today performance was ordinary, average, in no way remarkable except for being accomplished by a woman who broke her foot five weeks ago. She sings as well as most Charities, but what an odd take on the number -- shoving Charity aside at a key moment and taking over. It looks generic, under choreographed, and summer-stocky, and I found myself terrified at every moment that she'd re-injure herself. However, I'm in the minority here, so perhaps the audiences will cheer and be cheered by this revival and her very invested work. Even a mediocre Sweet Charity beats many other entertainments.

[Justice]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:21pm

Okay, let me rephrase, and say that Verdon, IN MY OPINION does not have a Broadway Quality voice. To me a Broadway Quality voice is one that could be heard from the top of the balcony without wearing a mic.
I did not say that Verdon does not have the qualities of a Broadway star. That I cannot deny, she did have. She was amazing PERFORMER. But, unlike Judy Kuhn, Rachel York, Audra McDonald, Liz Calloway, and many others, Verdon could not cut out an album and sell it the way she could sell a Broadway show.
Have I cleared it up for you?

[WickedBoy1011]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:29pm

STOP COMPARING THEM! GWEN VERDON WAS GREAT AS CHARITY, BUT THAT WAS HER VERSION, AND NOW SHE'S DEAD. SHE IS A BROADWAY LEGEND, HOWEVER SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE LIKED HER VOICE AS MUCH AS OTHERS DID. THAT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT SHE WAS GREAT AND WILL BE REMEMBERED AS A LEGEND. CHRISTINA IS A DIFFERENT PERSON AND IT'S REALLY NOT FAIR TO COMPARE HER TO ANYONE ELSE. SHE'LL GROW INTO IT, BUT SHE WILL NEVER EVER BE LIKE GWEN VERDON BECAUSE SHE ISN'T GWEN VERDON, SHE'S CHRISTINA. I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD SHUT UP AND GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE. OBVIOUSLY SHE IS DEVOTED TO THIS SHOW BECAUSE SHE PRETTY MUCH MADE IT HAPPEN ON BROADWAY, SO I THINK UNTIL WE ALL SEE THE FULL SHOW WE SHOULD RESERVE CRITICISMS, BECAUSE LIKE SOMEONE SAID EARLIER, IT WAS OUTSIDE, I'M SURE IT WAS COLD, AND SHE DID A PRETTY GOOD JOB IN MY OPINION. NOT TO MENTION SHE'S JUST ADORABLE. SO ANYWAYS, THAT'S MY OPINION. LET'S NOT COMPARE APPLES AND ORANGES OK?

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:31pm

What I want to know is how many people on this board actually SAW Gwen Verdon perform. Live.

I don't care about people's opinions about current performers, but it annoys me to no end when 23 year olds extol on and on the virtues and debits of a performer they know only from video and cast albums. It's not the same thing.

The only people who are qualified to compare Christina Applegate's performance to Gwen Verdon's in SWEET CHARITY are those who actually sat in the theatre and saw both performances first hand.

I don't think there is a single person here who can make claim to that at present time.
Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:31 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:32pm

Except there is a gaping hole the size of Jenna Jamison's vagina in your theory.

Verdon performed MANY of her roles without the aid of body mics, unlike the rest of those performers. Those performers have NEVER had to play 8 shows a week without the aid of body mic-ing, unlike Ms. Verdon who won all of her Tonys in the age before body mic-ing was popular.

You have every right to not like her voice. Hell...it ain't pretty. A recording artist? No. A big-time Broadway star with an old-school Broadway sound? Abso-f*cking-lutely!

Updated On: 4/22/05 at 12:32 PM

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:33pm

Again to Justice

Get it together! Gwen did record an album and it's terrific!

and she was performing on broadway long before they had mikes glued to the faces of performers and she still managed to get 5 tony awards!

[robbiej]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:34pm

Four, Chita.

Only Julie Harris has 5.

Verdon has 4:
One supporting for Can-Can.
Three leading for Redhead, Guys and Dolls and New Girl in Town.

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:35pm

Amen Robiie!!!!!! and loved your wink at Mr. Big!!!!

[Justice]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 12:39pm

It's as if you all think I'm dissing Verdon!
I'm not. I am not denying that she was not a great Broadway star!
I'm just saying that vocally, she falls in the lines of Channing, Reinking, Stritch, And even Bea Arthur - all of which are GREAT performers.
But, whatever - this is going to go on and on, and the point to this thread is being missed.

I support Christina, and am glad that she is determined to do this.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 1:02pm

I would just like to add that including Idina Menzel in a list that includes the likes of Julie Andrews, Chita Rivera, Faith Prince and Patti Lupone doesn't get much credit in my book either...

Posted: 4/22/05 at 1:07pm

I agree, Idina does not have the experience that those other performers have, but with time and hard work maybe one day she will be on par with them.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 1:10pm

RobbieJ, Gwen Verdon was never in Guys and Dolls

she has 4 wins and 6 noms

Can Can-win
Damn Yankees-win
New Girl in Town-win
Redhead-win
Sweet Charity-nom
Chicago-nom

Updated On: 4/22/05 at 01:10 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 4/22/05 at 1:27pm

Michael Bennett:I did not see Gwen in CHARITY but I did see her in CHICAGO and let me tell you, the only time I ever took my eyes off of her was to look at Chita...and Vice versa. I left that show with my eyes crossed.