Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?- Page 4
Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#75
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:00amLike someone said, it's like that in every business. Whether people admit it or not.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#76
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:01amPutting aside religion. Idina Menzel and for that matter Tonya Pinkins also, gave better performances. The real race was between those two, not Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#77
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:02am
I find it interesting that many people on this board just assume that Kristin is being, say, "truthful" in saying that her producers were "threatening" to not promote her. Maybe her memory isn't entirely accurate. Let's count the ways how these "horrible" producer people hurt poor little Kristin:
1. They developed a hit mega-musical in which a star part was basically written for her. In doing so, they spent about $14 million.
2. They promoted the hell out of this show, helping Kristin to reach a higher level in her own career, for she had never really starred in a Broadway musical before (Sorry, but Sally isn't a starring role in YAGMCB.)
3. From what I saw, they treated her like Broadway royalty (and she obviously came to believe that she was).
4. They gave her LOTS of money.
And yet, the only thing she can say to the Christians is that, while being in this mega-musical in New York on Broadway, there was a lot of "drama" and that she was "threatened" by her producers. Lots of code speak here, even if it is unintentional. The biggest code for right-wing evangelicals is "we are the victim."
Anyway - it seems like a pretty stupid career move to back-stab those who helped you to get to where you are.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#78
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:03amI agree. I'm completely over her.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#79
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:10am
Bahahhaha.
Beaf.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#80
Posted: 9/19/05 at 5:26amIn some of the interviews that I have seen with Kristin, she hits me as so fake. I could be totally wrong and someone will probably tell me so. I applaud her for standing up for her beliefs, but she can't use them as some kind of excuse. It's pretty easy to criticize your former place of employment but it usually comes back to bite you in the ass.
Chorus Member Joined: 2/28/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#81
Posted: 9/19/05 at 8:22am
Ok people... one word- context. How many people have had a conversation with someone online and things got blown out of proportion because the other person couldn't hear the subtext in your voice to gather your meaning? Same situation here.
Chenoweth NEVER said she lost the Tony because she was Christian. In fact she never really associated her religion and her loss together. Reread it... she was using that situation with her producer to illustrate how there is lots of drama in the business- nothing more.
It's called reading for detail. Skill of a true actor 
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#82
Posted: 9/19/05 at 8:56amAfter reading the excerpt..and then the whole article...I dont' think there is any implication about Kristen not winning the Tony based on her faith. I read it simply as people expecting her to act a certain way, or she would be criticized...especially by the Christian media. Unfortunately, the world is full of stereotypes, and according to those good Christian girls don't complain or get angry or dislike people.
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/19/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#83
Posted: 9/19/05 at 9:09am
This site truely makes me laugh..... people can strech the littlest phrase and manipulate it to there liking....
Oh and the whole Kristin losing the tony, frankly i don't care because she shouldn't have been nominated in Leading Actress....she should have been Nominated in Supporting Actress
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#84
Posted: 9/19/05 at 9:36am
I'm not sure about people stretching meaning. It's not like someone is forcing Kristin to do these interviews. When people speak publicly, other people have a right to listen and interpret.
Kristin makes is seem that the producers created drama by singling her out because she wouldn't extend her contract, and she had to deal with it - her "faith was tested." In the overall context of the question she was answering, "do most of your colleagues in the industry know you are a Christian," it takes on a deeper meaning. She didn't have to bring up the subject of her producers in this interview. It seems ungrateful. Also, there are plenty of working christians in this industry (though almost all are not right-wing fundie/radicals.)
Understudy Joined: 9/18/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#85
Posted: 9/19/05 at 10:12am
"I'm not sure about people stretching meaning. It's not like someone is forcing Kristin to do these interviews. When people speak publicly, other people have a right to listen and interpret."
The meaning is being stretched when the false conclusion is made by reading the following line: "the producers weren't happy that I wasn't going to stay. They even said that if I left they wouldn't promote me for a Tony Award, but I said, 'Well, that's okay.' And I was nominated for a Tony anyway" and then inferring from the above statement that she is REALLY saying she thinks she didn't win, or wasn't promoted correctly (and therefore didn't win) because she's Christian. That is so very obviously NOT what she is saying. Pulling incorrect meaning from a statement and using it simply to bolster your own negative opinion of another person is JUST AS BAD as what you complain in your last paragraph that "fundies" do, which is make premature judgements based on little more than bible quotes spun for convenience and taken WILDLY out of context.
"Kristin makes is seem that the producers created drama by singling her out because she wouldn't extend her contract, and she had to deal with it - her "faith was tested." In the overall context of the question she was answering, "do most of your colleagues in the industry know you are a Christian," it takes on a deeper meaning. She didn't have to bring up the subject of her producers in this interview. It seems ungrateful. Also, there are plenty of working christians in this industry (though almost all are not right-wing fundie/radicals.)"
That's just ridiculous. She's giving examples of her work life, and two of the big ones (that people know of, and that have been big for her) thus far, is WICKED and THE WEST WING. And she talks about both experiences honestly. And "honestly" doesn't neccesarily mean "factual representation of exactly what happened," because Kristin's honesty is coming from Kristin's side of her story. There are other sides. But she is being honest about HERSELF, and HOW HER FAITH affects her actions in her chosen profession, and that is what this interview is about. You're focusing on MAYBE one line in that entire section, which is the part where she talks about wanting to leave and the Producers trying to get her to stay. There is a whole other section in there where she talks about that period of her life (when doing WICKED) being difficult in general--that her mother got sick around that time, that she started to get overtired, that she had stomach problems-- and because of that, her faith is tested. If you can't glean her meaning by reading this interview, and I think the intent is clear, then you must have failed reading comprehension in school.
Finally, your last sentence: "there are plenty of working christians in this industry (though almost all are not right-wing fundie/radicals.)" makes you sound as bad as the people you proclaim to dislike because they're extreme right wing. Making sweeping judgements (in the form of name-calling) about anyone on EITHER side of the political/religious spectrum only makes the name-caller look like a hypocrite, or like someone unable (or unwilling) to make an educated point backed-up by facts.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#86
Posted: 9/19/05 at 10:40am
Oh, Pseudolus! A READER! Come sit next to me!
My fave quote from radioactive, above:
"Liberals have a lot of power, and being a sucessful conservative is not easy."
Ahahahahahahaha.
Leading Actor Joined: 3/7/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#87
Posted: 9/19/05 at 10:53am
"What's difficult is that once they know it, they will begin to watch how you react to things."
That's where the persecution complex comes in. crazy you seem to be well versed on what it is she means to say, what does that line mean?
I like Kristin as a performer, I just think she has a bad publicist and doesn't think about what she's saying and how it will translate to people not worshipping at her feet.
It's nice she wants to promote her Faith and be an inspiration for others but I don't think talking about how hard her Broadway job was and how producers didn't promote her for a Tony is going to garner much sympathy that her Faith was tested. It just comes across as whining. And perhaps it is bad editing, obviously she was trying to make a connection to her Faith, but you never see what it was or how her Faith came into it and helped her out of it.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#88
Posted: 9/19/05 at 11:03am
Well Crazy, since you question my reading comprehension with personal attacks, let's see:
"The meaning is being stretched when the false conclusion is made by reading the following line: "the producers weren't happy that I wasn't going to stay. They even said that if I left they wouldn't promote me for a Tony Award, but I said, 'Well, that's okay.' And I was nominated for a Tony anyway" and then inferring from the above statement that she is REALLY saying she thinks she didn't win, or wasn't promoted correctly (and therefore didn't win) because she's Christian."
Well, I never said any of the above. You must have read into it - is it a reading comprehension problem? However, I was referring to an overall persecution mentality, in which a simple question about her colleagues in the industry knowing she is a Christian leads to a story about how she is persecuted (but overcomes it to get the nomination). You can parse words all you want, but when you look at things in context (and yes, Crazy, context is a part of reading comprehension), you get the story.
"There is a whole other section in there where she talks about that period of her life (when doing WICKED) being difficult in general--that her mother got sick around that time, that she started to get overtired, that she had stomach problems-- and because of that, her faith is tested."
It was Kristin Chenoweth (or the editor) who immediately talked bout "faith being tested" right after talking about her producers. "I worked with some tough people in that one (WICKED) - and my faith was tested." Her words, not mine. And only then does she say "My mom was also struggling for a while with health issues." It seems that you are the one twisting the words, Crazy.
"And "honestly" doesn't neccesarily mean "factual representation of exactly what happened,"
Yep - the neo-conservative in the Republican Party have been relying upon your idea of "honesty" for years to manipulate things. And to many people in this country right now, "honesty" has nothing to do with "facts." George W. Bush "honestly" believes that he reacted appropriately to the New Orleans flood - you think? Maybe the more important word here is "truth," which is based upon actual facts or events. remember facts, Crazy, facts?
"Finally, your last sentence: "there are plenty of working christians in this industry (though almost all are not right-wing fundie/radicals.)" makes you sound as bad as the people you proclaim to dislike because they're extreme right wing. Making sweeping judgements (in the form of name-calling) about anyone on EITHER side of the political/religious spectrum only makes the name-caller look like a hypocrite, or like someone unable (or unwilling) to make an educated point backed-up by facts."
Well I make no apologies for trying to separate the mainstream Christians from those criminals and liars such as Pat Robertson, James Dobson or Bill Frist who have claimed the title of "Christian" in order to advance a political agenda. Indeed I made the OPPOSITE of a sweeping generalization.
I also make no apologies for disliking people who I think are intentionally trying to destroy the Constitution of the United States. I was saying that most "Christians" who work in this industry don't hate gay people and feminists and blame them for 9/11 (ala Falwell and Robertson) and don't want the federal government to become a theocracy. (BTW, Crazy - gay people and women do make up a large number of people in the industry - hence my meaning.) I also reject your idea that someone has to be on one "side" of the political spectrum or the other - frankly you sound like a right-wing mouthpiece when you say this (with us or against us). From what I've seen, the right-wingers are the most radical group ever to come to power in this country - they have gained power by lying about their intentions and lying their way into war, but I don't believe they truly represent the ideals of this country.
I personally have never professed to being a christian or done interviews about it, nor do I now believe that Chenoweth is a right-wing fundie (though she does want them to buy her album).
Frankly, Crazy, you went out of your way to take shots at me while ignoring the main point of the posting. I suggest you do a little boning up on your reading comprehension.
Updated On: 9/19/05 at 11:03 AM
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#89
Posted: 9/19/05 at 11:04amOh, who cares? Let's just stay locked up for another half an hour. The police are coming and there are two dead bodies in the study!
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#90
Posted: 9/19/05 at 11:29am
For she's a jolly good fellow.
For she's a jolly good fellow.
For she's a jolly good felloooooow.
Which nobody can deny (can deny...)
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#91
Posted: 9/19/05 at 11:31am
Understudy Joined: 9/18/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#92
Posted: 9/19/05 at 12:38pm
"What's difficult is that once they know it, they will begin to watch how you react to things."
Ok, this is how i read this. Have you ever told anyone that you're REALLY religious (regardless of denomination?) Or been in a room with someone who IS really religous? And you (or that person says,) "Oh, I'm a Christian, and I'm very devout..." or something along those lines? While I am not religious, I've got a couple of friends who are, and whenever they tell someone they're very devout, and get in to a discussion about it, there IS usually a reaction--whether intentionally or not intentionally--in that other people start to pull back, or they watch themselves or the other person to make sure they either don't unwittingly offend the person, or else their defense mechanism kicks in. In the latter, the other person of a seperate point of view ends up feeling very protective of what he/she believes, because he/she believes the very religious person must automatically think A, B, and C about him/her. Even if that person doesn't think those things--there IS the automatic association a lot of people feel with certain religions and certain biases that tend to run with them. I think it's a very common knee-jerk reaction, and I've seen it, and a lot of people do it without realizing they do it.
I can't tell you exactly what Kristin is trying to say. All I can tell you is that I totally didn't get anything negative or self-serving from that interview. And I think it's obvious that she's not claiming to be "persecuted." To me it sounded like she just had a hard time with the people she worked with and felt this was one of the reasons. Unless we were backstage at WICKED, none of us can really say what went on there. Also, it sounded like Kristin just had a lot to say that was vaguely related, and the way it was written made it sound like some parts are exagerrated. But from what I can see, most of the people in this thread didn't feel she was "dissing" anyone or saying that she feels persecuted. It's a Christian publication. Clearly, the focus here is going to be religion.
Also, I don't think Kristin's publicist is doing a bad job at all. She's getting a lot of fairly good, well-rounded exposure from what I can see. And also, i think it's clear that Kristin herself has an idea of what she wants and how she wants it (IE: she wants to reach out to other Christians) and so her appearance in a number of those magazines is because she feels strongly about that, and so her publicist is helping her towards that end, instead of saying outright, "No, Kristin. You can't do that. The general public will not understand." It seems to be that the public is overall very supportive and not at all put-off by her wanting to speak for what she believes.
I also respect her honesty when she speaks her mind, and I wasn't offended at all by anything said in that Christian publication. And I'm just a fan of Bway in general without any real politcal or religious slant. I mean, I don't share her beliefs AT ALL as far as religion goes, but I believe in her right to be able to express those beliefs as an entertainer. Far as I can see, there isn't really anything here she hasn't already said in not-so-many words, and I really think her overall message here is clear, which is that she is who she is, and she wants to do good, and she wants to spread her love of her religion, and she wants to stay true to that despite challenges she sees in her profession.
But if you want to make it negative, it's probably possible to take just about ANY article or POV and turn it that way, if that is how you want to see it.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#93
Posted: 9/19/05 at 12:44pm
I heart Pseudolus.
And I think my feelings are best described by Prince, whose song "Annie Christian" appeared on the "Controversy" album:
Annie Christian wanted to be number 1
but her kingdom never comes, thy will be done
She couldn't stand the glory, she would be 2nd to none
the way Annie tells the story, she's his only son
Annie Christian wanted to be a big star...
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#94
Posted: 9/19/05 at 12:44pmSpeaking as a crazy Cheno fan, I'd have to say that that IS THE STUPIDEST THEORY ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET AND WHOEVER CAME UP WITH IT SHOULD BE DRAGGED INTO THE STREET AND SHOT!!!!
Understudy Joined: 9/18/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#95
Posted: 9/19/05 at 12:51pm
"Oh, who cares? Let's just stay locked up for another half an hour. The police are coming and there are two dead bodies in the study!"
HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!
"I believe that men should be like Kleenex. Soft, strong, and disposable."
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#96
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:18pmI can understand her viewpoint on this issue. It's rare to be a Christian in the entertainment buisness and the moment it comes out that you are people put the filters on their mouth and watch and disect everything you say.
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/25/05
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#97
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:24pmI think it is a severe stretch to refer to Chenoweth as a "right wing fundamentalist." She isn't antigay in the slightest--she's given interviews in the Advocate and made it clear she believes God is accepting of everyone.
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#98
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:25pm
whenever they tell someone they're very devout, and get in to a discussion about it, there IS usually a reaction--whether intentionally or not intentionally--in that other people start to pull back, or they watch themselves or the other person to make sure they either don't unwittingly offend the person, or else their defense mechanism kicks in.
I admit I recoil a bit. I'm not sure why. I don't recoil from people who tell me they believe in Santa.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: Chenoweth no Tony for Wicked because she was Christian?#99
Posted: 9/19/05 at 1:29pm
after reading some more threads I have more to say....
In this country Christianity is not the minority but when you are in the entertainment buisness you are most deffinitely the minority. Her point was proven by this post, it's controversial to be a Christian and be on broadway...we are sure talking about it.
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