Creative license. How much is too much?
Creative license. How much is too much?
#1Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:03pm
There are a few areas in Hamilton that LMM took creative license. Shocking??? I know.
The biggest inaccuracy is Angelica didn't have any brothers. However, there were 13 siblings and she did have brothers.
The next was Angelica being single when she met Hamilton. However, Angelica was married, which is probably why she didn't marry Hamilton herself.
There are a few other inaccuracies, but most of it was due to compressing time and to speed along the show.
How much is too much? I wonder because as the show is seen by the younger generation, they will look at Hamilton as being historically correct, since they probably never studied Alexander Hamilton in greater detail. Is LMM changing history, or merely putting on a Broadway show?
Here is a video of LMM discusing the use of creative license.
#2Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:09pm
The simple fact is it doesn't really matter. Americans don't study Hamilton in school at all, really. He might be mentioned a few times in passing but that's really it. This is a case where I don't think the alteration of real life matters when it comes to the drama of the show. It works better dramatically if she's single and chooses to sacrifice that opportunity for her sister (and for societal pressures).
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#4Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:29pm
It's not the first or the most severe amending of history done for a musical.
Practically all of THE SOUND OF MUSIC is fake.
#5Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:34pm
Jefferson also wasn't one of those who confronted Hamilton about Reynolds- James Munroe was (Munroe actually was as sizable of a rival to Hamilton as Madison and Jefferson- part of the Virginian contingent- but Miranda combines elements of Munroe's contributions with that of Jefferson, Madison, and Burr). That's more "substantial" than altering Angelica Schuyler's history, as she is an extremely minor part of history. She and Hamilton did have a very close and intellectual relationship, which is the important aspect that Miranda conveys.
The fact is: real life makes for lousy storytelling.
#6Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:38pm
It is sort of a problem in that audiences really want to believe that any show "based on" real events is a factual history lesson. No dramatic narrative (play, musical, movie, TV show) is a documentary; they must play loose with facts in order to be entertaining. 1776, Funny Girl, Gypsy, Hamilton, The Sound of Music, The King and I - these shows are all entertaining, and all only vaguely/tenuously connected to any facts.
However, we all know people who see these shows and then discuss the characters and events therein as though something real and new has been learned about history. It's unavoidable - the human urge to feel easily informed.
#7Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:38pm
If you think about it in terms of who lives/who dies/who tells your story... and tells it on Broadway, this is another lesson in how a story can change depending who tells it.
#8Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:41pm
LizzieCurry said: "If you think about it in terms of who lives/who dies/who tells your story... and tells it on Broadway, this is another lesson in how a story can change depending who tells it.
"
Very interesting observation, and correct.
#9Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 2:43pm
Also, I don't think that Angelica Schyuler was in anyway involved with the founding of the US, so I highly doubt that a student in US History is going to get a question on their exam about that. I think it's a minor detail that can be wrong.
In Hamilton, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Angelica doesn't say mention her relationship status. She does say that she's "looking for a mind at work-work". But she could potentially be looking for a little something on the side. And it's completely possible that despite being married, she may have feelings for Hamilton which the musical does mention. Maybe it's not mentioned in Satisfied because that wasn't a deterrent in her pursuing of Alexander Hamilton.
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#10Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 3:04pm
There is fidelity to history (or other source material). And then there is the fact that each play or libretto (or novel or screenplay) has its own particular needs defined by plot, theme, form, tone, conflict, character, etc. These particular needs define the work's artistic truth.
What would be too much change? Change which serves neither historical (or other source material) fidelity nor artistic truth.
And, in addition, change which is so notoriously inaccurate that it might backfire by alienating the audience (by offending the audience's own fidelity to the historical or source record) from appreciation of the work.
Caveat: sometimes notorious inaccuracy, though potentially jarring to the audience, is all the more in harmony with a work's artistic truth precisely because it is so jarring. Rather than offending the audience through revisionism, that revisionism defines the work for the audience. For instance, departure from even very well known fact can highlight absurdity, irreverence and or comic dimension which might be an important part of what makes the work work.
#11Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 3:13pm
mistermanifesto said: "Also, I don't think that Angelica Schyuler was in anyway involved with the founding of the US, so I highly doubt that a student in US History is going to get a question on their exam about that. I think it's a minor detail that can be wrong.
In Hamilton, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Angelica doesn't say mention her relationship status. She does say that she's "looking for a mind at work-work". But she could potentially be looking for a little something on the side. And it's completely possible that despite being married, she may have feelings for Hamilton which the musical does mention. Maybe it's not mentioned in Satisfied because that wasn't a deterrent in her pursuing of Alexander Hamilton.
"
Remember after the wedding, there's a later scene where she tells him she's getting married
#12Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 3:28pm
Kad said: "Jefferson also wasn't one of those who confronted Hamilton about Reynolds- James Munroe was (Munroe actually was as sizable of a rival to Hamilton as Madison and Jefferson- part of the Virginian contingent- but Miranda combines elements of Munroe's contributions with that of Jefferson, Madison, and Burr). That's more "substantial" than altering Angelica Schuyler's history, as she is an extremely minor part of history. She and Hamilton did have a very close and intellectual relationship, which is the important aspect that Miranda conveys.
The fact is: real life makes for lousy storytelling. "
Another adding to that, was Hamilton resigned from the Treasury Department in 1795 to make more money in private practice, while Washington was still President. John Adams never fired Hamilton.
#13Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 3:29pm
mistermanifesto said: "In Hamilton, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Angelica doesn't say mention her relationship status. She does say that she's "looking for a mind at work-work". But she could potentially be looking for a little something on the side. And it's completely possible that despite being married, she may have feelings for Hamilton which the musical does mention. Maybe it's not mentioned in Satisfied because that wasn't a deterrent in her pursuing of Alexander Hamilton. "
Well she does have the part in Satisfied where she explains "I'm a girl in a world in which my only job is to marry rich, my father has no sons so I'm the one who has to social climb for one."
JM226
Broadway Star Joined: 11/10/15
#14Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 5:16pm
dave13 - you're just touching on the most obvious major lies and changes. LMM actrually changed a lot more and compressed the timelines. Another fun fact, for example: Laurens was in prison during Hamilton's wedding. He couldn't have actually been there in real life. Hate when people change history to suit their show
#15Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 5:30pm
Man, a lot of you are Neil deGrasse Tysoning this.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#16Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 5:35pm
"Hate when people change history to suit their show."
Wow.
#17Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 5:39pm
There's never been a dramatized movie or a piece of theater (except The Laramie Project, I guess, and maybe others I don't know about) that's completely historically and factually accurate. Why should Hamilton be any different, or have different expectations placed on it?
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#18Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 5:51pm
These are the kind of people who are all, "Ohhh, I don't read fiction, I just don't have enough time. I read business books and historical biographies."
Which are 1000% accurate you know because they are non-fiction.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#19Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 6:04pm
Next thing you know you guys are gonna tell me Che Guevera didn't follow Eva Peron around her whole life singing at her!
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#20Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 6:11pm
He would have been her conscience if only she would have listened.
Also, Jesus received 40 lashes from a microphone cord, just like in the original production of Jesus Cripes Superstar!
#21Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 8:51pm
henrikegerman said: "There is fidelity to history (or other source material). And then there is the fact that each play or libretto (or novel or screenplay) has its own particular needs defined by plot, theme, form, tone, conflict, character, etc. These particular needs define the work's artistic truth.
What would be too much change? Change which serves neither historical (or other source material) fidelity nor artistic truth.
And, in addition, change which is so notoriously inaccurate that it might backfire by alienating the audience (by offending the audience's own fidelity to the historical or source record) from appreciation of the work.
Caveat: sometimes notorious inaccuracy, though potentially jarring to the audience, is all the more in harmony with a work's artistic truth precisely because it is so jarring. Rather than offending the audience through revisionism, that revisionism defines the work for the audience. For instance, departure from even very well known fact can highlight absurdity, irreverence and or comic dimension which might be an important part of what makes the work work.
"
So you did read your Brecht! Good for you.
(I'm kidding, of course. I know you are quite capable of doing your own thinking. But we had been discussing Brechtian theory.)
#22Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 8:57pm
hork said: "There's never been a dramatized movie or a piece of theater (except The Laramie Project, I guess, and maybe others I don't know about) that's completely historically and factually accurate. Why should Hamilton be any different, or have different expectations placed on it?
"
You're right. It shouldn't.
But Namo is right that even "non-fiction" presents no more than one view of history and must necessarily select and delete the facts in order to create a comprehensible account. Playwrights such as Anna Deveare Smith and Emily Mann who use nothing but direct quotes from the public record would still agree that they too "alter" history in the very act of editing. The same may be said of THE LARAMIE PROJECT, and I imagine its creators would agree.
#23Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 9:17pm
It's only too much when the person applying for the creative license can't drive.
#24Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/13/16 at 10:30pm
PalJoey said: "
It's only too much when the person applying for the creative license can't drive.
"
LOL. Funny and also true.
IMO only, if one is going to complain about artistic license, then one should also make a case that some essential truth has been lost or distorted in the taking of that license. I don't know HAMILTON well enough to say.
I also don't know whether Thomas Jefferson played the violin, but in my view, by humanizing the Founding Fathers and dramatizing the compromises made to form the Union, 1776 tells a more important truth than any it may distort.
JM226
Broadway Star Joined: 11/10/15
#25Creative license. How much is too much?
Posted: 1/14/16 at 8:07am
FindingNamo said: ""Hate when people change history to suit their show."
Wow.
"
what is so shcoking about what I said
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