Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)
Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)
Stand-by Joined: 9/27/06
Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#1
Posted: 11/17/06 at 1:55am
Why? Thats my question. Why is it necessary to live a life where you need to find fault with everything. Life is meant to be enjoyed, not disected to find its every fault. Why cant one watch a live performance to just enjoy it? Whether it is a life altering performance or a performance that takes you away from reality for a few hours. As many of you "hate" Disney on broadway, lets be honest with ourselves. Disney has literally reinvented the idea of Family Theater. Why must critics over analyze a show that is meant to be taken lightly and to heart. Obviously, when one goes to see Mary Poppins, they are not expecting to leave the theater with "a new meaning for life". We go to be swept away by the magic which is LIVE THEATER. I wish critics would take into context a show before they put their negative mark on it. In general, our world is too filled with negativity. Everyone is looking to find something to be-little. Why cant people just take things for the way they are? Life is way to short to pick apart things just for the sake of finding fault. Sorry for my rant, but I leave everyone with this...We are here on this planet for a blink of an eye. Dont waste the moments trying to find fault, enjoy it for what it is!
Updated On: 11/17/06 at 01:55 AM
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#1
Posted: 11/17/06 at 1:59am
Yup
They Killed an interesting
thing like
THE TIMES.....
MARY POPPINS will
Survive
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#2
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:00amI think you just need to avoid reading reviews.
Featured Actor Joined: 11/5/06
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#3
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:02am
Every review i have read is totally mixed. even from just 'regular' people who arent paid columnists. Check the next 'reviews' thread for similar reviews and stuff. plus something that I just basically typed.
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/4/04
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#4
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:03am
but if you love Theatre
you gotta check out
what they think
even if you Disagree
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#5
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:08am
I don't like the blurry quality of your avatar, but I don't want to be negative. So instead, should I simply lie and talk about the good combination of colors, or the poignancy behind such a picture and an inspirational username combined?
The point is, reviews are meant to be an overview of how that person felt during a show -- if that means that he or she found faults, then so be it. You have to remember that if a critic includes such seemingly petty negatives in a review (in print, there's only so much room allotted), he or she must have felt the fault was important enough to be included. This is the world of reviews and critics. A critic is not a person who's going to sit back and go by the rule, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything." That kind of stuff doesn't pay for Reidel's Porsche and Park Avenue apartment.
Featured Actor Joined: 11/5/06
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#6
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:16am
For 'not wanting to be negative'... you got pretty far. Strong work. Excuse me for having a username/avatar that coordinate. I have fabulous matching skills.
I never discredited them or said that they were petty (such as your remarks above). And I couldn't honestly care about what they have to say. I just wont ever understand.
Leading Actor Joined: 1/9/05
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#7
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:17amMary Poppins wins best musical in June. You heard it here. Critics are very different people from the vast majority of Tony voters.
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#8
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:18amTHE TIMES has a better chance of winning best musical than MARY POPPINS
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/17/03
re: Critics are truly rediculous (Mary Poppins)#9
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:19am
I've posted at length about the importance of critics and the narrow-mindedness of those who take offense and choose to attack their sector of the industry, but I'll try and keep it short this time. I will simply say that no one is forcing you to read these reviews. If you happen to disagree, then just disagree and be done with it. A critique is an opinion if nothing else, and if you think a certain critic is way off then leave it at that and be proud of your position.
None of them claim to be offering anything more than their personal takes on the show. It's what they are trained to do, they have the background, knowledge, and experience necessary to try and separate the good from the bad and explain it in an educated way- but in the end it's still just 1 person's opinion.
They wield less power now than ever. A bad review from the Times is no longer instant death. If enough people like what they see, they will keep a show running. In a world without reviews, the theatre would be an awful and embarrassing place. There would be no regard for content or quality, the commercialization would be far greater than it is now, and the expense and spectacle would be astronomical. And at the high prices of tickets these days, it is essential that there be an educated (if snobby) voice to keep us grounded and help decide how to spend your money. These guys might be elitist and out of touch with much of America, but better to hear what they have to say than to base your decision on the layman "critics" that broadway.com is using now.
It's easy to get bitter and try and believe that all critics are cynical, bad people driven by jealousy and contempt. That's great if it makes you feel better, but it's also completely wrong and really discredits your claim. You don't need to like the critics but more people need to be willing to try and understand the purpose they serve and the reasons they are essential. I suggest that everyone watch this seminar:
http://www.americantheatrewing.org/seminars/detail/critics_09_99
"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/10/04
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#10
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:21am
Why is it such a problem for SO MANY people on this board to spell ridiculous?
Leading Actor Joined: 1/9/05
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#11
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:24amJust like Ragtime won best musical.
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#12
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:28amTHE LION KING got a hellavalot better reviews than MARY POPPINS. Tony Voters don't always vote for the biggest show of the season. Or the biggest money maker. I have no idea what would make you realistically think the critically panned MP would WIN the Best Musical Tony...
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#13
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:28amWell the did make the show very...Disney all of a sudden...
Leading Actor Joined: 1/9/05
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#14
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:37amCritically Panned? I must admit that I'm not as theatre wise as you Mr. Bennett, but I've seen a couple of negative reviews and some very positive reviews. I believe Lion Kings NYT review was not all that pleasant.
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#15
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:38amI hate it the most when reviewers criticize a show for being something that it was intending to be. Mary Poppins is criticized for being big on spectacle and small on heart and while I do believe that there were people involved with the project who never intended for the show to lack "heart" I also don't believe for one second that "corporate Disney" was not throwing money at the show so that it would be a mega-family-spectacle event of sorts not caring at all about the content and only wanting to rake in the money. with that in mind I do feel sorry for the reviewers who are not able to see that or articulate it and try to offer criticism to a machine that can only take said criticism as a compliment as they have achieved exactly what they set out to do and that has now been proven with the review.
Stand-by Joined: 9/27/06
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#16
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:42amI just feel that critics are WAY off base from the typical viewer who goes and sees a show like this on broadway. Yes as you can probably tell from my username I am a fan of Disney. That being said, it does not mean that I didnt get teary eyed while watching Les Miserables or understand the ever so important meaning which lies in Rent. I just dont agree with the negative connotation automatically associated with a Disney production. Lets be honest, its ever so clear, even on this forum that once "Disney" is attached to a musical, many people dont even give the show a fair chance. They go into the theater with an already pre-set mind frame. Am I saying that Mary Poppins is the best piece of musical theater to ever grace a Broadway stage...Not at all. But at the same time, am I saying that it deserves the respect of any "Non-Disney" show, yes. Mary Poppins is not meant to alter the way you view life, it is meant to take you away from what is "the real world" and into a voyage of fantasy and imagination. And maybe its just me, but isnt that what family theater is supposed to do?
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#17
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:43am
The original NY Times review of The Lion King:
"AS AN AIR OF JUBILATION filled the meticulously restored New Amsterdam Theater following the final preview performance of 'The Lion King,' I was somehow reminded of a comment attributed to Ethel Merman about Mary Martin. 'She's O.K.,' said Merman, who had better things to do than talk about the latest competition, 'if you like talent.'
If you like talent, you have to acknowledge the magical accomplishments of Julie Taymor in transforming the 1994 Disney cartoon feature into a major Broadway event. The multigifted artist not only directed the show, but she also wrote the lyrics for one of the new songs, designed the costumes and (with Michael Curry) the gorgeous masks and puppets. Critics of the National Endowment for the Arts take note: this overnight sensation, now making her commercial Broadway debut, perfected her various talents during years of working with the same not-for-profit theaters the N.E.A. was designed to support.
The result is one of the most memorable, moving and original theatrical extravaganzas in years, an enterprise that can only make the profit-propelled Disney organization even richer."
Sure sounds like a rave to me. And so much for the notion (expressed by some here) that all critics hate all Disney shows -- show them a good one and they write something positive.
http://theater2.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?res=9A06EFDC1F38F930A15752C1A961958260
Leading Actor Joined: 1/9/05
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#18
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:50amI thought one of the times reviewers hated it? Oh well, I was 12 years old when it opened. This show has become my special show that I'll like regardless of what others think of it. Everyone's entitled to have atleast one. As I said in the other thread, I see some soul and perhaps the voters will too. At anyrate, if I blow this prediction, I'm not going to worry about being the laughing stock of the Broadway World message boards.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/17/03
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#19
Posted: 11/17/06 at 2:59am
Look, everybody has different tastes and that's the bottom line. Critics are no different than anybody else when it comes to preferring certain types of music, story, or style. They have their favorite performers and can often be biased. But that's the thing, bias is not incompatible with a legit review. It'd be one thing if they were biased due to having a personal or financial stake in a show, but if they express bias based on appreciating some elements more than others- well that's just them doing their jobs.
That's just one review out of many. If the Times seems to be unfair, then check out some of the others. If they are all negative, then just be happy in the fact that you have a unique taste and enjoy it while it lasts. It could still be a fan favorite and run for 5 years if there are enough people spreading the word. And some excellent shows will fail no matter what, in spite of great reviews. That's a much greater injustice than the idea that POPPINS is being called out for its flaws. And even with these reviews, the thing is still going to run longer and be seen by more people than any number of superior shows that couldn't make enough cash (hell, almost everything Sondheim has put on broadway). And if Disney has to take the hit and lose some money on this one, well that's really a non-issue.
The Broadway industry is brutal and impossible to predict. The critics at the very least provide a constituency of reliable voices to guide the confused theatregoer through each new season.
"The last train out of any station will not be full of nice guys." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"I wash my face, then drink beer, then I weep. Say a prayer and induce insincere self-abuse, till I'm fast asleep"- In Trousers
Featured Actor Joined: 1/27/05
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#20
Posted: 11/17/06 at 3:05am
I have to somewhat agree that critics are overwhelmingly negative nowadays. I'm not saying they shouldn't state their opinion, but in the past few seasons, what shows have truly received across-the-board raves?
It does make you wonder if many of the "more influential" critics have a sour taste in their mouths over NOT being able to close a show on their say-so.
Shows like Mamma Mia, Wicked, and now Chorus Line and more than likely Les Miz will all have extraordinarily healthy runs, and to my memory recieved mostly mixed-to-negative reviews. I may be wrong as my knowledge is hardly encyclopaedic, but I can't help but notice that the major critics give far fewer positive reviws than they once did...
am I wrong Margo? Do your research...your always brilliant at proving people wrong :) and I mean that in a loving way.
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#21
Posted: 11/17/06 at 3:10am
I just dont agree with the negative connotation automatically associated with a Disney production. Lets be honest, its ever so clear, even on this forum that once "Disney" is attached to a musical, many people dont even give the show a fair chance. They go into the theater with an already pre-set mind frame.
I think that most critics reveiw all shows fairly, but I'm not denying their is a certain repulsion when it comes to Disney. Cameron Mackintosh said himself in a recent inteveiw with the New York Times, "they no nothing about theatre", and they also represent a good bit of what many consider to be wrong with Musical Theatre these days, and I can't say that's an unfair assessment. Yes, they have their good points, they are not all evil, they do some good shows, etcetera. There are two sides to everything, one is their genuine contribution, the other is the fact that they contribute to the "put it on a t-shirt / theme an iPod with it / turn it into a musical" mentallity. You have to look at each side long and hard with an equal eye. As far as MP goes, it wasn't all around pans, and shows with worse reveiws have remained in our mentallity. My opinion [drawing from ALL of what I hear from others], it looks like a good show that has a great future, it has its flaws, but it seems to be an all around GOOD musical. Not great, but good, and good enough to have a future. And its not great crime against the artform if it does.
And critics,
They wield less power now than ever. A bad review from the Times is no longer instant death. If enough people like what they see, they will keep a show running. In a world without reviews, the theatre would be an awful and embarrassing place. There would be no regard for content or quality, the commercialization would be far greater than it is now, and the expense and spectacle would be astronomical. And at the high prices of tickets these days, it is essential that there be an educated (if snobby) voice to keep us grounded and help decide how to spend your money. These guys might be elitist and out of touch with much of America, but better to hear what they have to say than to base your decision on the layman "critics" that broadway.com is using now.
AMEN. Thank you Broadway Matt.
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#22
Posted: 11/17/06 at 4:20am
"in the past few seasons, what shows have truly received across-the-board raves?"
People seem to remember reviews as being much worse than they actauly were. Without bothering to do the research, this season and in every season in memory, there have been at least 5 to 10 shows on and off-Broadway that have received across the board positive notices -- just a couple of days ago, the new musical STRIKING 12 got a very nice slate of reviews and off the top of my head in the last few months, THE CLEAN HOUSE, JACQUES BREL, NO CHILD, SEVEN GUITARS, and HEARTBREAK HOUSE all got mostly positive notices. Last season JERSEY BOYS, LIEUTENANT OF INISHMORE, HISTORY BOYS, THE FAITH HEALER, DROWSY CHAPERONE, WELL, BRIDGE & TUNNEL, SEASCAPE, PAJAMA GAME and SHINING CITY were all universally praised (save for the odd critic here or there).
And as for your list, A CHORUS LINE received positive or mixed-to-positive reviews from all but two or three major critics, the reaction to LES MIS was split with as many mixed-to-positive and mixed-to-negative notices, and, contrary to popular belief, if you look up the reviews for MAMMA MIA and WICKED, most were mixed-to-positve, with only a few pans thrown in (Brantley actually really liked MAMMA MIA and wrote a love letter to Chenoweth in his review of WICKED, though he was rather mixed on the overall show).
I'll never understand why people always have the impression that critics trash every show. The only time you see across the board pans is for shows like TIMES THEY ARE A-CHANGIN or IN MY LIFE or that awful Suzanne Somers show -- shows where the audiences agreed with the critics and stayed away causing the show to flop. Most long-running shows got mostly decent reviews -- perhaps not across the board raves, but at least mostly mixed-to-positive notices.
The current slate of critics is not a bunch of intellectual theatre scholars -- just the opposite actually. Only a couple of them have ANY background whatsoever in theatre either professionally or academically (Feingold of the Voice and David Cote and Adam Feldman of TimeOut are some of the only ones that come to mind). Most, like Brantley, for instance, were English majors who stumbled into journalism and then just by chance ended up reviewing theatre (Brantley had NEVER written a theatre review in his life before he joined the Times -- he used to write entertainment features and movie reviews for Vanity Fair and Women's Wear Daily). None of them have any specialized knowledge or rarified taste in theatre (and most, in fact know less and have less experience both seeing and working in the arts than several of the members of BWW and ATC). In short, their opinions are very similar, in most cases, as any reasonably well-educated adult on the street. So to think that they collectively are a bunch of snobs who's tastes are too intellectual for the average theatregoer is a bit of a stretch.
The only thing that makes them any different is that they see much more theatre than the average person and by virtue of that, perhaps have a different take on a given piece than your typical person who may see 4 or 5 shows (or less) in a given year. Perhaps, seeing tons of bad stuff and tons of good stuff year in, year out gives them a different set of standards than most people (not to mention, they are held accountable for their opinions and have to justify them in print to thousands, which also can account for why their opinions my sometimes vary from an average theatregoer).
Anyway, the point is, there's never any reason to allow a set of reviews to get you upset. Critics, in the main, don't know any more than any other reasonably intelligent person, so if their opinion differs from yours, it doesn't mean that they're right and you're wrong. If you disagree, don't let it bother you.
Swing Joined: 11/16/06
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#23
Posted: 11/17/06 at 4:34am
Many of the reviews sound discouraging. It leaves me wondering if I'll find the show enjoyable. I've not seen it yet. I'm a huge fan of the film and I enjoy the books. I hope I'll find it worthwhile. One thing is for sure, I've never expected it to be much more than spectacle. I figured it may well come off close to a Disney Animatronic attraction that one might experience at their parks. Rather sad I know, since one should expect much more from the theatre. I hope that I'll at least get a thrill from being swept away in one of the musical numbers or flying sequences and that it will help ease the disappointment if it's not exactly the most in-depth or well written show I've ever seen.
I agree that critics are important and negative reviews should be written if they are of honest opinion. At the same time I do think I understand where some of the feelings of discontent with certain negative reviews may come from. It seems that all too often the negative review is filled with sarcasm and mean spiritedness. I find that unattractive. It makes the critic seem as though they do have some prior axe to grind. It seems as though they wanted to hate the show from the start. I have no problem in pointing out a show's flaws, but there is a difference between a cleverly written and intelligent piece versus one that comes off merely as a pretentious and cocky slam.
Swing Joined: 11/16/06
re: Critics are truly ridiculous (Mary Poppins)#24
Posted: 11/17/06 at 5:00am
Anyway, the point is, there's never any reason to allow a set of reviews to get you upset. Critics, in the main, don't know any more than any other reasonably intelligent person, so if their opinion differs from yours, it doesn't mean that they're right and you're wrong. If you disagree, don't let it bother you.
Very well said! We need to remember that. Often we are overly sensitive to other's opinions, especially if it's something about a subject close to our hearts. I need to remember that it's just a difference of opinion or different tastes.
Thanks, Margo. We do need to keep it all in perspective.
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