Do you feel that Sondheim is a better composer or lyricist? — Page 4

Sondheim does not usually writ his own orchestrations.

Now, some people who think that he and other musical theater songwriters can do no wrong will bring up the issue of re-writes and the time constraints involved in putting together a musical but frankly, from personal experience I know that's bull**it. Composers themselves have told me that that is not the case, it's just an excuse. Most musical theater songwriters have very little or even no experience with instrumentation, and in my opinion, orchestration is part and parcel of the compositional process.

hence songwriters vs. composers. I don't think the two terms are interchangeable. HOWEVER, unlike some people with the soundtrack vs. cast recording debate, I don't push it on other people.

Just my two cents since you were asking for information.

---

I have never been compelled to MAKE someone agree with me and the Sondheim discussion has been done to death so I won't try to convince you that his music will last long after he is gone. So...the following opinions are just MINE and I do not ask that you agree with me.

I am just curious as to how you can predict that he will be forgotten so quickly? I love Adam Guettel but he too can be uneven as are MOST composers. This is an art...not a science. Rather than compare or hold one composer over another, I would prefer to let them all grow and thrive and let history determine whose music will last.

As for whether Sondheim is creatively, technically or musically a great composer, many musicologists, critics and audiences have judged him to meet all the requirements. True, his compositions can be too complex, cerebral and dissonant for some...but that is taste. When judged on pure talent, it is hard to find him wanting IMHO.

And his "look at me" attitude? Sondheim is not a huge egomaniac who seeks attention and adoration. He does not compose for anyone other than himself. Yes, he is clever, and he uses the English language well. That does not mean he is being a "show off".

What I HAVE found is that many people come to Sondheim slowly...and that his music grows on them. Typically, I like to hear his music before I see the show if I can because I find I enjoy the music a lot more if I have had a chance to hear it first. There is so much to hear that you often fail to catch all the subtleties.

---

"He's a good but uneven composer. (at his best, there isn't anything better... When he's off, it can be pretty god-awful and painful)"

I will go so far as to agree with that, but I don't think he reaches the "god-awful" low very frequently.

Regarding Tunick's orchestrations: Sondheim has said (I don't remember where) that he composes his piano parts so densely that all his orchestrators have to do is pull them out, adjust them, etc. They rarely are forced to create new material, which is why most Sondheim songs sound just as good with a simple piano.

And I agree with everything SamIAm said. I think he hit the nail precisely on the head.

---

No, that's definitely true. Many productions I've seen personally have let the music or lyrics fall second to the other, through crappy musicians or singers or bad amplification. The beauty of the material comes through a cohesive listen of both elements.

---