Effie White -- Does She Have To Be "Heavy?"- Page 7

[kevs]

Posted: 3/21/06 at 11:40pm

"Help! I'm addicted to STRAIGHT, you got that, STRAIGHT porn! on the next Oprah"

Oh God. What is wrong with him? Then there was the time he was cast in a UPN sitcom but dropped out not because his character was gay, but because the show would feature another gay character, and he would have to show "approval" or some bs like that.

ANYWAY , to bring this thread atleast kind of back on topic, I'm not feeling the casting of J. Hudson as Effie. Her voice is technically very good but nothing out of the ordinary, atleast IMO. I can't seeing her doing all of those impassioned, gospel growls. (I don't know why the buzz was only about AI people. There are other singers out there who didn't appear on AI. God, why does this show's alumni have to infester everything from radio to theatre, and now movies? Am I the only one who hates this show?) The most important element, I think, will be for her to work with an acting coach. Several singers on talent shows such as AI and Apollo attempt to sing the song only to show off the pyrotechnics, but they have absolutely no emotional connection whatsoever.
Someone upthread mentioned Tarralyn Ramsey, and from what I have heard of her, she may have been a very good choice. But all in all, I agree a fiercely talented unknown should have been cast.

EDITED because I forgot to reply to this:

"Sure, some hypocrite haters would make snide remarks, but I don't believe for one second that Jennifer Holliday's Gospel career would be ruined for being gay friendly. Patti LaBelle wouldn't have a friend in Jesus if that were the case."

Just imagine if Yolanda Adams sang at a pride event, gave an interview to a gay publication, or hell, even simply stated that she believes gays should have equal rights. Her career would be over. Period. It doesn't matter if she and the national black church knows there are many gay people in the church, she couldn't publicly acknowledge her support. And Patti is not primarily a gospel artist, even though she may occasionally sing gospel and has gospel influences. She's not held to the same standards. Updated On: 3/21/06 at 11:40 PM

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 3/22/06 at 1:09am

u kno kevs i really like you! ur really incisive about the whole gospel thing. but in response to the jennifer hudson thing: i think its genius casting. she really wasnt allowed to show her full immaculate range on that awful show. now from my very reliable sources ive learned that it came down to three actresses at that point(fantasia was out of the running)two of them were just singers, one from the theatre, and one had a recording career that went sour. jennifer gave the best screen test. bill condon was pushing for her in the first place but the producers didnt really know, so they couldnt agree at first and told her agent she was out of the running, but condon (the man is amazing) made them give her another screen test. blew them away. she's effie. and from the footage ive seen: she's a damn good one. we wont see AIATYING footage until the trailer cuz Condon is doing some things to make that scene really intense so he'll be filming it last.

[FoscasBohemianDream]

Posted: 3/22/06 at 2:06am

I think it's interesting Jennifer Holliday says in the broadway.com interview posted by kevs on this thread that the actress who plays Effie must be a singer first and then get acting training. I have always thought it should be the other way around, I am not sure I'd be OK if Jennifer Hudson does a grandiose version of "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" and "I Am Changing" without actually performing the song as Effie. I guess Holliday would know, having played Effie herself, but I still feel they should have gotten an actress who could sing instead of a singer who would be coached to act. Condor is a great director/screenwriter so I'm sure he hired Hudson for a reason.
I wonder how he is going to stage "And I Am Telling You...," does anyone know if "It's All Over" was cut? I assume the more theatrical songs were probably cut since dialogue is being added. I'm sorry, I have never seen Dreamgirls live but my cast recording is worn out and the film looks rather promising so I'm quite excited.

Updated On: 3/22/06 at 02:06 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 7:54pm

I was just watching a clip of Whitney Houston singing "I'm Telling You" from the early 90s - was she ever attached to a film version of DREAMGIRLS as Effie?

[FoscasBohemianDream]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 7:59pm

On this same thread (one or two pages before this one) someone posted an interview with Jennifer Holliday in which she says:
" Yes, Dreamgirls was supposed to become a movie twice. The first time Whitney Houston was slated to play Deena. The complication with that version was that Whitney wanted to sing Deena's songs and Effie's songs. Not! Duh! Hello! She wanted to sing "I Am Changing" and "(And) I Am Telling You." You see why it took years to explain to her that couldn't really be a possibility?! So, that was the first version. Then about three years ago, they wanted to do a whole new rendition with Lauren Hill as Deena and Kelly Price as Effie, but it just never caught fire."
I have seen the clip of Houston performing the song and I'm not a big fan of it, just my opinion.

[Sandy in Sable]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 11:50pm

Yeah, I've seen maybe two or three clips of Whitney singing AIATYING, and I wasn't exactly wowed either. Don't get me wrong, of course she's an amazing singer, but I don't think she brings all of that gritty razor blades to the insides type stuff that Jennifer does. Whitney had such a crystal clear voice, she was never about all those growls and glottal frys. That clip of her singing A Quiet Place, wow. I just love how I'm afraid to even write the word "Youtube".
But everytime I read the part about her wanting to sing Deena AND Effie's songs, I go all Chekhovian and feel like laughing and crying at the same time. Absurd. Just go do a concert with a Dreamgirls medley thrown in. Looks like she kinda did that, singing AIATYING usually as a part of a medley.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/30/06 at 11:58pm

And these days, imagine Whitney singing AIATY with a crack pipe in one hand and her false teeth in another. It certainly would be a showstopper.

[kevs]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:04am

Whitney's version of AIATY was just average. She didn't even go for any of the high notes.

[Sandy in Sable]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:31am

I haven't heard Julia Nixon nee McGirt sing it, and I'll take Margo's word that she was outstanding, but there's only one version of AIATYING other than Jennifer Holliday's that I have thoroughly enjoyed. It was actually a contestant on Showtime at the Appollo from the late '80s/early '90s. I remember seeing the clip on one of their "Best of Amateur Night" episodes.
She was reminiscent of Izora from Two Tons O' Fun, and she really sang it (although she messed up some of the words, and was basically doing Jennifer's version). She just rolled up to the mic, took it off the stand, swung that cord, and this huge amazing voice just spilled out of her mouth. It was so effortless.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 12:33am

Julia is amazing and was a great Effie, but Holliday owns AIATY.

[Zachary Goldfarb]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 1:29am

If Jennifer Holliday is not in the revival of THE WIZ, I will sob for several weeks.

[thejcm]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 1:50am

If she could get over her reported Diva-tude I think she'd make such a great Evilene.

[Sandy in Sable]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 2:46am

She would make a great Evilene. I still watch Mabel King in What's Happening!! reruns every night.
The other day I was thinking Jennifer would be great for a concert version of Little Shop. She could do double duty as the soloist ("A-LAAARRRM goes off at se-heh-ven...") and the voice of Audrey II ("FFEEED MEH SEEEEE-MOWWWW, hunh hah heh...").

[thejcm]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 7:29am

Haha I totally told one of my friends that idea while listening to Dreamgirls one day. We were discussing females playing Audrey II and I was like "!!Jennifer Holliday!!"

[Zachary Goldfarb]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 2:00pm

Speaking of...has anybody heard any casting rumors for THE WIZ? Holliday's still out there - what are people's thoughts on this ACTUALLY happening?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 2:05pm

THE WIZ is part of La Jolla's season for next year so it's definitely happening. But it isn't officially a pre-Broadway anything and no producers are attached -- it's simply the production of a local (high profile) regional theatre and nothing more (though McAnuff has gotten permission to have extensive rewrites done on the book). IF the reviews are great, then perhaps negotiations will occur to transfer it to New York, but at this point that's an IF not a WHEN.

Updated On: 3/31/06 at 02:05 PM

[Zachary Goldfarb]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 3:37pm

I don't mean THE WIZ actually happening - I mean Jennifer Holliday being in it...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/31/06 at 3:54pm

I haven't heard one thing about Holliday even being approached. A few posters here have expressed that they HOPE she might get to play it, but that's it.

[Antceleb12]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 6:09pm

I really would love to see Holiday in Dreamgirls, but, I think Hudson's gonna blow the film right out of the water!

As for weight, I had NO idea when Holiday started out, she was skinnier. Thanks for the info! And Margo, thanks for the post, its really great news! I guess typically a heavyset woman was picked maybe for a couple reasons:

1 - Flo Ballard (Effie's model) was the heaviER one in the Supremes
2 - Since Effie stood farther out from Lorrell and Deena and would eventually break out as the star of DREAMGIRLS, it would make sense to set her apart in weight, as a foreshadowing of differences between the group members
3 - A LOT of big belters like Holiday are typically larger in size.

However, the skinniER ones may have more umpf to their voice or more (as Margo said) focus on the lyrics, like Julia McGirt.

Great topic!

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 12/10/06 at 6:55pm

Thank you Margo for such an overflowing plethora of information. Having read back this entire thread, it's both enthralling and entertaining to hear all of the great knowledge you have about this very interesting subject.

As has been said, Effie by no means has to be 'big.' Holliday wasn't at the beginning of her run, and Hudson is a very healthy size (and even smaller now than she was in the film.)

I think the character being a bit hefty just adds new and exciting layers to the already complex story, and it also is realistic in regards to the events already set in place. Groups getting ready to cross over to mainstream audiences (as The Dreams are when Effie is kicked out of the group) very commonly went through image overhauls, and putting a person like Deena who represents society's typical image of beauty at the front wasn't (and still isn't) something that was unheard of in the least.

All of these things just make the hurricane-force explosion that is "And I Am Telling You.." all the more powerful, and Effie's tale all the more tragic.

[wiggum2]

Posted: 1/9/07 at 7:12pm

I just have to reiterate what others have said about thanking Margo. I never really knew anything about the show until recently and this thread was great!! I loved the movie and can't get those songs out of my head!

[batboysings]

Posted: 5/12/20 at 10:00am

This is an amazing thread!

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/12/20 at 11:13am

Ugh, stop rewriting the book to The Wiz. The original isn't great, but every re-write has been worse (and the live t.v. version was dreadful).

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/12/20 at 11:17am

Never saw this thread before so have to comment on OT. There is no dumber development in a very dumb book than Effie being accused of "getting fat" when she is, in fact, pregnant. While Effie might have also started putting on weight to disguise her pregnancy, that really wouldn't work. This show isn't set in the 19th century, and even in the more innocent early-to-mid-60's we're dealing with a group of people who are savvy enough to know a pregnant woman rather than an overweight one.

Dreamgirls has a good score. It has a pretty illogical/abysmal book.

[seaweedjstubbs]

Posted: 5/12/20 at 4:11pm

Not every pregnant woman looks exactly the same. Heck, they made an entire TV show about women who didn’t know they were pregnant! I don’t think it’s too far out of the realm of possibility that she’d been gaining weight both from the mental abuse Curtis put her through, and being in the early stages of pregnancy. Plenty of women get asked “When are you due?” when they’re not pregnant, so why not the other way around?

DREAMGIRLS may not be a perfect show, but I honestly don’t get attacking the book. No, it’s not high art, but it’s a pretty solid story in my opinion. I do think the film improved on a few things, mainly Jimmy’s story, although I understand why the cast of the Broadway musical objected to Jimmy dying. They wanted the show to be an overall positive representation of black culture, and having a character addicted to drugs and ultimately dying would’ve hampered that. Still, I think his death adds a bit of edge that the stage version is missing.