Exposing the orchestra during "Rose's Turn"- Page 2

[Sondheim_Geek]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 10:51pm

Don't quote me on this, but I don't think the St. James has a traditional pit. For The Producers, the pit had to play in various "rooms" on the upper floors of the theater, conducted on television monitors and the sound was piped into the house electronically.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 11:12pm

That's incorrect. There was a pit for The Producers. In fact, if you go up and examine the carpet at the St. James, you can see where the pit used to be.

[SweeneyPhanatic]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 11:15pm

So they removed the pit and added some more seats for GYPSY?

...cool.

[Sondheim_Geek]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 12:41am

My bad. This is what I was thinking of:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/05/theater/05pit.html

They moved a portion of the pit upstairs, not the whole thing.

[jv92]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 12:46am

Regarding composers conducting opening nights in the olden days, most did. Rodgers did, I think. Gershwin did. Bernstein conducted West Side's opening night.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 2:11am

I always thought it was pretty clear why Laurents cut the Small World Reprise. He doesn't let the audience see Rose break down until her manic Rose's Turn. And it really works. Patti's Rose would never cry over Herbie walking out, because satisfying her own dream comes first, and it certainly comes first at that moment.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 5:52am

SoundheimGeek: That was a fascinating article from the Times, if somewhat frightening. The next logical step might be to do away with a live orchestra altogether and just use recorded music, if it weren't for the powerful musicians' union. Bring back the natural sound of an un-miked pit band!

ljay889: I don't think having Rose sing a few snippets of "Small World" takes away anything from "Rose's Turn" in terms of the impact on the audience. If anything it sets up the tension for the final number. And after all it is in the original script, along with Rose reaching for Herbie's hand and holding it as she says, "Don't leave Herbie...I need you."

As for the "rape scene", I don't recall Rose using the word
"rape". She opens her dressing gown a bit and reacts with faux hysteria. It IS supposed to be funny and adds to the general comic confusion of the scene. So why did Laurents cut it?

And while we're at it, what possessed Laurents to change the Minsky's strip number from "A Salute to Christmas" (from the original 1959 production) to "The Garden of Eden"(used in all subsequent productions)? The "Minsky's Salute to Christmas" is far funnier, tacky and hilarious, with its slithering showgirls' boobs covered with Christmas ornaments, as they stand draped around a giant Christmas tree. Louise is brought out in a large package which she pops out of. My only guess is that 15 showgirls cost too much money.

[legally_popular]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 2:12pm

I think it has been mentioned before (in another thread) that Arthur changed the Christmas act because he didn’t think it was that funny.

As for the “rape” scene, I don’t mind it being cut, although it does add to the chaos of that whole scene.

The “Small World reprise” though... I agree with both James885’s comments about what it adds to Rose’s character and lj889’s comments about why it was cut. I think it works either way. Rose made a point to not cry when June walked out, so her not crying for Herbie makes sense too. The scene may be more intense without it, building up the uneasiness for Louise’s strip. However, I think I would prefer the reprise left in. I think it would have a more emotional impact and definitely would have me crying at that part.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 3:05pm

I had also heard at one point that the reason the strip in the original production wasn't as long (i.e. no ecdysiast monologue) was because either Laurents or Robbins, I can't remember which, did not particularly care for Sandra Church and thus tried to give her as little as possible. Whether this is true or just the product of bitchy theatre queens passing down gossip over the years I can't tell you.

As for the Small World Reprise, it is very possible to play the scene without crying. Rose is left alone for one of the few times in the show, and for her to let a little emotion come out then would not diminish her character in the least. I think Herbie really cuts her to the quick when he points out how she is pushing Louise away. The best performance of that scene that I have seen was Alene Robertson who went into this quiet state of shock, but as soon as Louise came back in, she snapped right out of it and drove "You are going to be a star!" with such ferocity that you became almost afraid of her.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 3:52pm

In the original production, Robbins didn't want Louise to speak during the strip because he didn't like the idea (Laurents changed this during the Lansbury revival in London, and it has remained that way since). Merman was the one who didn't like Sandra Church, not Laurents or Robbins (as far as I know).

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 12/28/08 at 4:08pm

Sandra Church was cast for her acting over Anne Bancroft and Carol Lawrence. The one who disliked her was Merman because Church was having an affair with Jule Styne.
The talking for GYPSY's strip was added for Zan Charise, as Laurents had wanted because the real Gypsy Rose Lee spoke in her act.

The orchestra onstage is not an artistic choice. Every ENCORES show has the orchestra onstage and it is just cheaper to keep it that way especially for GYPSY because if the orchestra wasn't there the show would be played in front of a curtain since there is very lttle scenery.
MONEY talks.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 12/29/08 at 3:42am

I can't understand considering Anne Bancroft or Carol Lawrence for the part of Louise. They were both too old to play Louise in her pre-stripper years. Anne Bancroft was considered for the part of Fanny Brice in FUNNY GIRL which wasn't a good idea either.

I don't understand the point that if the orchestra wasn't on stage then the show would be played in front of a curtain because there is not that much scenery. I would hate to think that the lack of scenery was purely a financial decision and not an artistic choice encompassing the fading away of vaudeville. In the original production "Rose's Turn" was played with the full stage and utilized the actual rear wall of the Broadway Theatre.

I agree with Jerome Robbins concerning Louise's monologue during her strip number. The ecdysiast bit is not clever; it is boring. I dont have a problem with Louise talking during her strip--just make it more interesting or funnier. And I don't remember Louise's monologue in the Angela Lansbury production, either in London or in NYC. The first time I remember it was for the Tyne Daly production.

Updated On: 12/29/08 at 03:42 AM