Exposing the orchestra during "Rose's Turn"

[mywonderwa11]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:14am

I saw Gypsy tonight and I noticed during "All I Need Is the Girl" and "Rose's Turn," they lifted the curtain to reveal the orchestra. When I saw the show back in September that didn't happen. It totally took me out of it. Why was this added?

Has anyone else noticed?

[Just_John]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:28am

It happened in September. Maybe the flat wasn't working the show you saw and they couldn't raise it, but that's happened since the show was at City Center.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:29am

I got a really inappropriate image from the phrase "Exposing the orchestra".

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:36am

Don't you hate LuPone with a passion? And yes they always do this.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:39am

I actually thought it worked very well, as these are the only two numbers in the show that come remotely close to "fantasy." As Tulsa gets more and more into "All I Need Is the Girl" we, the audience, are being drawn along with Louise deeper into his fantasy of what this new act will be. And "Rose's Turn," well, I think it speaks for itself how much of a fantasy that number is supposed to be.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:49am

I swear this has been discussed before. Why are people so fascinated? Other shows have the orchestra visible on stage for the entire show. One would think those would get more threads.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 4:53am

Having seen all the Broadway GYPSY's, I just don't understand the orchestra being on stage. Yes, I know this subject has been on the Board before, but I have never commented on it. Exposing the orchestra for Tulsa's dance number makes sense because he is performing in an imaginary theatre and the orchestra is right there with him. Likewise, "Rose's Turn" is an imaginary performance and the orchestra is backing her up.

Nevertheless, despite the orchestra being behind a scrim, it really makes no sense for the rest of the show. For all of the vaudeville numbers that supposedly take place in theatres, a pit band would be used. And having a pit band for Tulsa's number and "Rose's Turn" makes as much sense as having it on stage. Just because the Encores! productions always have the orchestra on stage doesn't mean it should be that way at the St. James. Encores! prides itself on having original orchestrations and an excellent orchestra. The St. James has a pit, so use it. Well, it's too late to consider that now, Arthur.

Incidentally, in 1959, when pit orchestras were never amplified, Jule Styne had special tall stools made for the trumpets so that they could REALLY be heard throughout the theatre.

Before the current production of GYPSY, there is only one show that I have seen with the orchestra on stage: 1962's NO STRINGS, with music AND lyrics by Richard Rodgers; and there were no stringed instruments!

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 5:17am

I saw the original show with Merman as a little child and remember walking up to the pit toward the end of intermission - this was my first Broadway show, having seen Camelot on opening night in the Toronto tryouts. There were two or three musicians in the pit when we got there and it was such an amazing sight to see all the others begin to come back in and get set to play again. I seem to remember there were some musicians on an elevated platform - maybe that was actually just my foggy memory of the brass section on their "tall stools." I have always, since that day, made that trip to the pit during intermission (although as I get older, another form of pit stop seems to be taking precident during intermissions.) One of the greatest orchestras I ever saw was opening night of "Sweeney Todd" and I know for a fact that the orchestra was smaller the next time I saw the show. It's always interesting to see the advances in musical technology - the encasing of the drummer in plexiglass walls, the strange combination of instruments one sees on the road, the twin pianos in shows like No No Nanette or the multiple chelli in "A Little Night Music." A visit to pitside is a must-see for any show.

I also can just imaginge how amazing the opening night orchestra must have sounded in 1930 for "Girl Crazy." The Gershwins stocked the pit with the greatest band in the world, including Red Nichols, Benny Goodman, Gene Krupa, and Glenn Miller. Holy crap. At least for the first six weeks, that show rocked.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 5:24am

The Wonderful Town revival, also from an Encores! production, also used an onstage orchestra. They lost a lot of room necessary for fuller choreography (Marshall's rather wonderful staging of "Christopher Street" was a tad cramped at times as I recall).

Chicago, also Encores! based, uses an onstage orchestra, but I find it appropriate and used well throughout.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 5:32am

Did George Gershwin himself conduct the pit band for the opening night of GIRL CRAZY? I remember reading that at intermission he rushed up to Ethel Merman's dressing room to tell her to never engage a voice coach; she was doing just fine without one. And Ethel never did. She was in awe of the master Gershwin.

Updated On: 12/27/08 at 05:32 AM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 5:42am

I believe he did.

[Usnavi]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 5:47am

it was fun as a kid just to stand above the pit and pelt the musicians with spit balls...they never knew what hit them!

[mywonderwa11]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 11:55am

ljay, yes, I do strongly dislike Patti LuPone, but my boyfriend is in town and he wanted to see it.

I guess the flat didn't work or there was something wrong with it because when I saw the show back in September it definitely wasn't raised.

I definitely see where they were wanting to go with exposing the orchestra during those two numbers, but (especially for "Rose's Turn") it totally caught me off guard and took me out of it.

I saw things a lot differently this time around...Leigh Ann Larkin...I totally see where she is trying to take her portrayal of Dainty June. The jaded, resentful, bitter Dainty June who probably smokes a cigarette after each performance. And while she captures the essence of that June often, I think she over acts it for the rest. And I'm simply just not a fan of her vocals. They may work for other shows, but I just don't think they work for the role of Dainty June.

One thing I did like was the re-staging of Jerome Robbins. The farm boys aren't trained dancers. Obviously, the actors playing them are, but the characters aren't. Tulsa trains himself. I think Bonnie Walker did a great job re-staging the choreography so that it's more raw? Almost...? Maybe that's the wrong word. But, I definitely found it charming to watch. Because it's not as believable when you have every farm boy look like they're this amazing, trained dancer. And while the choreography is very simple...I just think Miss Walker did a fabulous job re-creating it. I don't know if my thoughts on this topic were expressed the way they sounded in my head lol

Once again...Laura Benanti...you just can't go wrong with her performance.

Still hated the lamb puppet.

Patti LuPone...now, I will say this much. Her book work in certain scenes were fantastic. Her restaurant scene with Boyd was pretty perfect. If she played every scene the way she did that one then my opinions of her performance would be totally different. And her "Rose's Turn"...was extra crazy last night. I'm still not a fan of the crazy characature she is playing. But that's all I'll say about Mrs. LuPone.

The show is still in good shape and still enjoyable. The house was packed as well, which I was excited to see.

[mywonderwa11]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 11:55am

ljay, yes, I do strongly dislike Patti LuPone, but my boyfriend is in town and he wanted to see it.

I guess the flat didn't work or there was something wrong with it because when I saw the show back in September it definitely wasn't raised.

I definitely see where they were wanting to go with exposing the orchestra during those two numbers, but (especially for "Rose's Turn") it totally caught me off guard and took me out of it.

I saw things a lot differently this time around...Leigh Ann Larkin...I totally see where she is trying to take her portrayal of Dainty June. The jaded, resentful, bitter Dainty June who probably smokes a cigarette after each performance. And while she captures the essence of that June often, I think she over acts it for the rest. And I'm simply just not a fan of her vocals. They may work for other shows, but I just don't think they work for the role of Dainty June.

One thing I did like was the re-staging of Jerome Robbins. The farm boys aren't trained dancers. Obviously, the actors playing them are, but the characters aren't. Tulsa trains himself. I think Bonnie Walker did a great job re-staging the choreography so that it's more raw? Almost...? Maybe that's the wrong word. But, I definitely found it charming to watch. Because it's not as believable when you have every farm boy look like they're this amazing, trained dancer. And while the choreography is very simple...I just think Miss Walker did a fabulous job re-creating it. I don't know if my thoughts on this topic were expressed the way they sounded in my head lol

Once again...Laura Benanti...you just can't go wrong with her performance.

Still hated the lamb puppet.

Patti LuPone...now, I will say this much. Her book work in certain scenes were fantastic. Her restaurant scene with Boyd was pretty perfect. If she played every scene the way she did that one then my opinions of her performance would be totally different. And her "Rose's Turn"...was extra crazy last night. I'm still not a fan of the crazy characature she is playing. But that's all I'll say about Mrs. LuPone.

The show is still in good shape and still enjoyable. The house was packed as well, which I was excited to see.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 12:11pm

Wonderwa11, I'm glad you found things to enjoy in LuPone's performance, even though you're not a fan. It's always interesting hearing the specifics of folks' reactions.

What did the bf think? Was it his first time seeing it?

[mywonderwa11]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 12:22pm

Yes, it was his first time. He and I both share a dislike for Mrs. LuPone, but he liked her more than he thought he would. Up until her "Rose's Turn"...but he still enjoyed the production.

I just don't think Mr. Laurents is a very good director. Makes me nervous for West Side Story...

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 12:49pm

Arthur Laurents can be a good director as most of his work with different productions of GYPSY can attest to. Still, it was questionable to cut the "rape scene" in Rose's hotel room as well as cutting the short reprise of "Small World" after Herbie walks out on Rose. "Small World" made that scene more poignant.

Laurents's real stinker of a show was the 1990's musical NICK & NORA which he not only directed but also wrote. The director is loathe to make changes when he is also the librettist. NICK & NORA was the worst musical I have ever seen.

As for WEST SIDE STORY we shall have to wait and see how many changes Laurents the director makes.

[hpeabody930]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:03pm

I thought it was funny during both Rose's Turn and All I Need is the Girl, that you could see what was going on onstage on the conductor's monitor. I actually found myself watching that more than the stage itself.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 1:30pm

To me the omission of the "rape" scene diminishes Rose's character irreparably.

The brilliance of Laurent's Rose is that she is monster that you can't help rooting for. The woman pushes her underage daughter into what at the time would have been equal to today's pornography industry.

Are we suppose to admire that kind of behavior?

No.

Yet.. somehow Laurent's original book made us.

Now, with this Revival, Rose is just a "mom" with an ambitious streak and some minor boundary issues.

Maybe that is why I found LuPone's interpretation so flat: Lots of brass but no "edge."

Shaw started to tinker with plays later in life... George Lucas tried to "improve" his STAR WARS films. Maybe there is something to the idea of taking away masterpieces from there creators.

Updated On: 12/27/08 at 01:30 PM

[James885]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 4:06pm

I didn't mind the omission of the rape scene so much as I did the cutting of the "Small World" reprise. Although it's short, I think it brings out a more emotional side of Rose and does make the scene more poignant, as Gypsy9 said.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 4:17pm

I hated that both of these moment were cut. The "rape," besides showing the depths to which Rose will sink, and has done before, as evidenced by Herbie's frustrated response of "Again?" also provided the necessary chaotic set up to "Mr. Goldstone." I just could not believe that a lamb puppet coming in the door was enough to distract Rose from the fact that Herbie just brought in a representative from the Orpheum Circuit.

As for the loss of the "Small World Reprise," well, it just left Rose without that final chance to show that there is a real woman with real emotions beneath that tough as nails facade.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 4:22pm

Rape scene?


Why don't I know anything of this?

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 4:30pm

In the hotel, during the birthday party, the hotel manager comes in upon suspecting that Rose is breaking the rules. He finds her cooking, keeping animals, and housing far more people in the rooms than she said there would be, all against the rules of his hotel. The kids start running around to prevent him from getting an accurate head count and eventually she pushes him into the other room, pulls him on top of her and starts screaming rape. Mr. Kringelein, the hotel manager, runs off to avoid a scene while other guest start coming in to see what the commotion is about. That is when Herbie arrives with Mr. Goldstone. It is actually a very funny scene when staged properly, especially as it is implied that Rose has pulled the same sort of stunt in at least one other hotel to avoid getting in trouble for breaking the hotel rules. Why Mr. Laurents cut it for this production I do not know.

[Sondheim_Geek]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 10:01pm

Saw the matinee today (3rd time) and payed extra attention to the orchestra exposure, and I really liked it. I saw the show last about a month ago and didn't make a note of it happening.

She's still doing the whisper in the beginning, but I felt she did rush the end a tad which was a slight let down. In other news, the was a (very) successful Boyd and Laura entrance applause and a full standing after Rose's Turn. Great performances today.

[SweeneyPhanatic]

Posted: 12/27/08 at 10:25pm

I guess this is a good place for my question: Since the pit isn't being used in this production, has it been covered, providing more downstage playing space, or has it been left open with the downstage action stopping where it 'normally' would?