Gay presence at the Tonys- Page 5

Posted: 6/6/05 at 3:57pm

The thought that a same-sex kiss could take place on national television (during prime-time, no less) and not garner a public reaction is a bit naïve. I think it’s beyond fabulous that we have progressed to the point that younger people no longer think of this as much of an issue – especially young gay people. However, the very existence of a thread like this – on an internet theatre board frequented by many gay people – shows that that is not the reality of the situation. One can only imagine some of the reactions that took place in more conservative households around the country. I believe a couple of posters even said something about being happy their mothers didn’t witness the same-sex kissing.

It’s a beautiful thought that we could all just spontaneously express our affection to whomever we chose without having that action judged, criticized or even censored, but we don’t live in a time where that is the case. And every action someone takes is a matter of choice, even those made during a heightened emotional state. For that reason, any choice to go ahead and show that affection is in some way saying, “I will NOT be limited by you,” and that’s a political statement. This phenomenon is a relatively recent one, and in no way has blasted away much of the feelings of ‘taboo’ associated with it.

I take it as an insult that anyone would attempt to limit my or anyone else’s choice to make a choice such as this. Just as I find it insulting that ANY of the restrictions placed on same-sex couples are in place in our society. And I am seriously dismayed to see other gay people justify this attempt at suppression because they’re worried about the aftereffect.

So I for one say THANK YOU to those brave enough to not let the current societal climate of censure and hatred keep them from being who and what they are. It is not a choice they had to make, and I applaud them for their strength of will and character.

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 3:58pm

I have a saying and I'll just go ahead and say it, believe me I've put a lot of thought on it over the years. "Sometimes the most anti-gay people are the gay people themselves". I won't explain it, i have a lot of faith on the intelligence of the people here, so I hope you'll get what I mean !

[KelRel]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:00pm

Wow...this thread is INSANE! Let's face it somehow or another everything can be taken politically. Wiping after going to the bathroom can be considered political if you think about it- a tree was cut to be ground up to make that toilet paper, in the process harmful chemicals were emmitted into the atmosphere which is harming the ozone layer, increasing global warming and making it hard for someone in a 3rd world country to grow their crops this year. Also by wiping you are adding waste to the water supply which has to be filtered and cleaned and treated with chemicals to make it safe to drink, but really the chemicals included in the treatment process include carcenogens, which are killing us all slowly...OH NO! Thus wiping should be banned, because it is so political and bad for us all, right? WRONG! People can take something so simple and blow it out of proportion that it is ridiculous! I am not by any means comparing a kiss with wiping your butt, but both are natural (for people at least...right- everyone here wipes right?) things for people to do.

I was raised in a rural southern community (Kentucky), and I have friends who are openenly gay, I have friends who are straight, I have friends who are bi...I don't care. If they feel like kissing their partner go for it. Love is love. I may not share the same inclinations as some people but that is fine, varity is the spice of life. I know if I was winning an award and I was happy about it you bet I would kiss my husband, my best friend, her friend, and the person across the aisle from me. I wouldn't be making a political statement- I would just be happy. There is nothing political about that, people- it's just emotion and human nature.
(The republican from the south steps off her soap box- yes some republicans can be open, non-judgemental people)

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 04:00 PM

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:05pm

Rusmic, I was going to reply, but I decided not to. Let me be stereotypical and offensive.

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:10pm

Greek, I know exactly what you're talking about. I don't want to get into a huge thing over this, but you're right about that. It's not a healthy way of thinking, but it is true of many gay people that I know.

[robbiej]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:13pm

What is absolutely killing me is the fact that along side those highly politicized neckers (does that term work here?) were the quietly homo who have yet to publicly come out of the closet. I'm not gonna mention any names...but a couple of Emmy winners come to mind!

THAT'S far more shocking than the sweet displays of affection between people.

By the way...I'm one who believes that those displays are indeed political. And God bless them for it!

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:15pm

"There is nothing political about that, people . . ."

Kel, I truly appreciate your personal openness, but I must completely disagree with that assertion. Some facts:

- Gay people STILL do not enjoy eaual protection under the law in this country.
- GLAAD STILL hands out awards each year trying to bolster those who attempt to show positive depictions of gay life.
- Up until VERY recently, that innocent kiss that some are taking for granted could have gotten the network fined.

I'm all for the spirit of acceptance and love that many seem to want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation - no matter how strongly you feel.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:19pm

This thread confirms my fears that the worst enemy of the glbt community being accepted- is internalized homophobia, not the religous right.

Not all rebublicans are to be feared, and there is alot we have to work on in our own backyards as gay americans... When gay people are wondering why someone would kiss their lover or thanks the person wrote a beatiful story 20 years ago that glorified gay relationships should have censored themselves...that is SO disturbing!

[FosseBoi]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:20pm

Reading the stuff thats been said about anti-homosexuals make me want to just shout out, "I AM WHAT I AM DAMN IT! IM proud OF IT AND IF YOUVE GOT A PROBLUM WITH IT, GET OVER IT!!! IT DOESNT AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY!!!!!" Sorry, that was prob. alittle immature, but I dont care, thats how I feel.

Btw, Jerry Mitchel is HOT!!!! And I LOVED that he kissed his hubby! I thought it was SOO sweet!

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 04:20 PM

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:24pm

doodle, my point exactly ! But it applies to gays all over the world, not only Americans. And I am not talking only homophobia. At least here in Greece, when someone famous accomplishes something and he happens to be gay, can you guess who are his fiercest critisers ? Yep, that's right, the gay people !

[stonewall2]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:27pm

Elphaba, please slide a cold one down the bar honey, because reading this thread is making me want to scream! How can people continue to be so narrow-minded and mean spirited?
Joy is joy, and the fact that everyone and anyone at the Tony's felt they could share their happiness by kissing their partner/spouse/date was wonderful! These kisses were not used to hike ratings during a "sweeps period" on a prime-time show(ever notice that the appearance of lesbians on evening TV goes up during those ratings periods? That kind of cheap gimic always burns me). We will know that we have a truly great society when nothing has to be prefaced with the words "Gay, Black, Female, Asian, Hispanic" and so on. I REFUSE to ride "on top of the bus" just to make some foolish people more "comfortable"- I want a seat INSIDE, right UP FRONT! For the folks that didn't approve of the displays of affection last night, you could simply have changed channels and cozied up with the 700 Club or a DVD of "The Terminator"; that's right, you had the freedom to turn the set off. The "theatre" that you profess to enjoy so much would not exist without the gay and lesbian community-in fact, you would find yourselves without doctors,nurses,teachers, bus drivers and road repair crews That's right- we're EVERYWHERE and we will not go away simply because some people are uncomfortable.
The fact that this thread took the turn that it has is not surprising, but is is shameful.....

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:29pm

The vibe I'm getting from some posters here isn't that they should not have kissed, but rather that it shouldn't be interpreted as (or even intended to be) political. That bespeaks a lack of sociological awareness that just boils down to naivte. It may have the purest intentions at heart, but it still isn't within the parameters of the way the world is right now.

[robbiej]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:30pm

My GOD, D, are you editing a text book? Your sentence structure today is astounding.

In laymans (or gaymans) terms:

Here's a dollar, Mary, buy a f*cking clue.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:38pm

Yet what people don't realize is that a straight kiss, between a man and a woman onscreen, is political too -- it's working to promote a different kind of political agenda, to reaffirm the status quo of straight=normal, gay=marginalized. Of course, the couple kissing aren't aware of it -- have they ever been aware of the politics of being straight? -- yet it has an effect on media and representation.

The issue here isn't "gay artists shouldn't be political during the Tonys," but "gay artists shouldn't shake the cage or go against status quo." Why don't we all just march right back into the closet right now?

[Marquise]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:48pm

This backwards ass thinking makes my stomach turn. This way of thinking is exactly the reason why so many DON'T come out of the closet.

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:51pm

I just have to say that Jerry Mitchel seems like an absolute sweetheart and like many many others have said, I thought it was so sweet when he kissed his boyfriend and thanked him in his acceptance speech.

[rKrispyt]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:52pm

I think DGrant that the argument (or perhaps the misinterpretation of what's being said) is whether or not it was intentionally political, in which case I scream 'No!'.

I understand what you're saying and that it's idealistic to think that our society is at that place where this isn't thought twice about, but at the same time, I don't think it's at all wrong to strive for that, and I don't like that I'm getting the vibe from so many people who should be feeling the same way that it's a lost cause or even wrong to think that that's how society SHOULD be.

I'm sorry but I'm just that kinda person. Being the biggest fag hag this side of the Cuyahoga (I apologize to those whom that term offends), I don't see how it's at all acceptable that some of the best people I know - people I strive to be as good a person as one day - are not given the same inalienable rights to the pursuit of happiness as I am because I'm a heterosexual - even in something as simple as giving your life partner a kiss when you've just experienced one of the greatest moments of your life.

Yes, it may be reality, unfortunately, but you will never get me to accept that as okay because it's just unacceptable, pure and simple. As a society we should expect better from and for ourselves, especially amongst the gay community itself.

People are people and love is love whether it be between a husband and wife, a parent and child, two dear friends, or husband to husband/wife to wife.

And on a lighter note, I'm sorry but...lol, when you know you gots La Cage Aux Follies up for best revival and you gonna see some men in drag...how you gonna spend your time reacting to the kisses shared in real life as a political statement and offensive or whatever...like you weren't expecting to see some kind of sign of gay life in the theatre? puh-leeze.

My advice to those that didn't like it or were 'offended' - build a bridge and get the f*** over it.

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 4:53pm

There seems to be a lot of controversy on these posts about whether or not same sex kissing etc. on national television is political. To get to the ideal world where this issue doesn't matter, it has to be political.

[robbiej]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:00pm

And don't be so sure that it wasn't political on any of the participants parts.

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:00pm

Krispy - I just want to make sure we're on the same page here. I absolutely believe that they should allow themselves to show the affection that comes natually in the moment to them. I just feel that it's a choice they're making, and in making that choice, they are in some way making a statement to the outside world. You know, none of those who showed same-sex affection are youngsters, and they all come from a time (which was not long ago at all) when that type of action was verboten. I agree that an idealistic state of affairs would have their affection spring forth naturally and without any other thought - I'm just not sure we've reached that developmental stage yet.

But, to be very clear, I DO think they should have expressed themselves - as I think everyone should.

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:02pm

OMG, a simple showing of affection between a happy couple, becomes, like, one of the biggest BWW threads !!! In 2005 !!!!!!!!

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:04pm

Greek - given the times we're in right now - which seem like a retread of the 1950's - I'm not sure it's all that surprising.

[mikewood]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:06pm

Somebody kissing their partner upon winning an award is not politics. It's an expression of celebration and love.

Somebody making a comment about gay marriage upon a dais upon accepting an award is politics.

It is about as appropriate as any other political statment at an awards show. But unlike making a statement about war or against the president, a gay man remarking that he is not allowed to wed his partner is a remarkably personal statement in a public forum.

I'm not a fan of using public forums to grandstand political commentary. However, because of freedom of speech, if one wants to use his two or three minutes in front of the camera to do, so be it.

I don't like pirating the moment, I may not even support them movement but certainly support the right to make a statement that does not harm anyone else.

[BwayBaby18]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:10pm

i freaked out about the kissing, because i never knew that Sarah Paulsen was a lesbian.....that is the only reason i freaked out

[mikewood]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:10pm

I don't have a problem with kissing and thanking one's partner. What I did take offense to was Harvey Fierstien practically molesting what's-his-name on the red carpet sow on the TV Guide channel. If that were a straight man with a woman interviewing him, activists would be up in arms crying sexual harassment. >>>

This is true.
Namath is a still a drunk jack-a$$ but...
Can you imagine if Joe Namath had done THAT to Suzy Kolber rather than simply ask for a kiss. He'd be in jail.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 05:10 PM