Gay presence at the Tonys — Page 6

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#126

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:13pm

I am going to stop belaboring this after one last comment. Whether the same sex partners intended the physical contact in public to be political or not, it is political and given the constraints put on homosexuals in this country, it should be political as well as an expression of love for the partners. Ok I will now shut up.

#127

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 5:16pm

i freaked out about the kissing, because i never knew that Sarah Paulsen was a lesbian.....that is the only reason i freaked out >>>

Yeah, that kinda broke my heart...not that a fat guy in mid 30's had a shot with her even if she was hetero.

BLAH BLAH BLAH

#128

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:08pm

Hugh Jackman saying the audience was willing to "go both ways" was the quote of the evening. Hehe.

"By the way - has anyone else ever noticed that everytime Mike Nicholls wins a freakin award, his wife Dianne Sawyer kisses him (naturally) but she is always looking into a camera when she does? What's up with that?"

I don't think I had ever seen Mike Nichols accepting an award before, but I was watching the ceremony again this afternoon and Mrs. Nichols never looked to the camera. She closed her eyes when he kissed her and she was looking to the stage when he mentioned her in his speech. I thought that was a cute moment even though I'm not crazy about her. Going even further off topic, I wonder if she mentioned the awards on her show....

#129

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:15pm

received a PM from someone saying that i'm a homophobe and ashamed of being a gay man. my response:

i'm far from a homophobe. i'm in a relationship with another man. and i'm not embarassed or made uncomfortable when i see displays of affection in a gay couple.

however, i don't like to hear people whine about stereotypes when people in their own community are responsible for them.

a friend of mine referred to the tony's as the gay award show (meaning no offense to gays, but just saying it as in, "all gay people watch that, don't they?"). i can see why he thinks that because a bigger deal is made about who's gay and who's not every single year. that's not a bad thing, but i see why it happens.

then there are pride parades. the first thing you get when you walk in is condoms and vaginal dams. okay, promote safe sex. great. but if you look around, there are guys in nothing but g-strings dancing around. NO WONDER people think gay men are automatically sex-crazed. hence the reason i avoid gay pride parades. it's not my scene. i'm more the quiet type.

and i have to say, i was totally annoyed when adrien brody, who is one actor i admire and place in high regard, made statements about the war and bush on his oscar acceptance speech for THE PIANIST. i don't care what political bit it's touching on. i don't care what award show it is. i don't care who the actor is. WHY, WHY, WHY do we have to listen to political coments on an award show? award shows are meant to celebrate the craft. they're not menat to make statements. the art we're celebrating ALREADY DOES THAT. so why make another one?

also let me add: i don't like ANY of that. if someone comes up to me with pants around their ankles, a doo-rag (spelling?), and bling-bling around their neck and talks in all slang - don't cry to me that people say you must be in a gang or something. you ask for it. that doesn't make me a racist or anything - i have plenty of friends in every community - racial and sexual. i just think sometimes we go around asking for comments or asking for gossip. if people don't want to hear the gossip, then don't freaking do it. sometimes we bring it upon ourselves.

and if i WAS uncomfortable seeing two people kiss, it wouldn't be because they're gay, it'd be because i don't like public displays of affection. i've never been completely keen on any PDA's but i don't hate that people do it. i just, frankly, don't like to see it: straight, gay, whatever.

and now? i'm done with this ridiculous conversation.

"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman

#130

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:31pm

this kid is just that, a kid. He'll learn.

#131

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:31pm

"WHY, WHY, WHY do we have to listen to political coments on an award show? award shows are meant to celebrate the craft."

Out of curiosity, in the specific example you mentioned, the actor was being recognized for his part in bringing a movie with a strong political statement to life - why would you find it out of place to make reference to and comment on that very statement? It seems similar to me to Jerry commenting on gay rights in his recognition for LA CAGE.

#132

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:32pm

dude, this has all gotten outta control, especially if people are PMing people calling them homophobes and such.

Isn't the entire point to be open minded? I shake my head.

And not to start an argument, but just as part of a discussion adn in reply to ILuv's post, I'm kinda the opposite about the awards ceremony as an opportunity to state a political purpose.

I dunno, I like, long to be a child of the 60's, when people were encouraged to and weren't afraid (or rather, as apprehensive as today I should say) to protest or make their voices heard. I don't think it's so wrong for people to make political statements, otherwise I feel like it becomes taboo to voice your opinion about things, and leads to statements like "what does Ben Affleck know about gov't - why would you vote for someone just because a movie star backs them" like they're not people too, y'know?

I dunno, I just personally see our country goin' a bad way, and theatre feels like one of the few art forms that hasn't been completely commercialized and turned people into puppets instead of people, and...I dunno, I'm one of those dummies that's all about taking stands and making your voice heard and making a difference for hte better, blah blah blah...but whatever, I digress. My point was that depending on the kind of person you are on stuff like that, you're going to have a different and strong opinion regarding it and react differently to this post.

I just think it's gotten out of hand and want to apologize if I offended anyone, and to apologize to ILuv if I had any part in making you out to look like a homophobe or ashamed to be a gay man. though I may not agree with your opinions in your post, that's just a horrible thing and I think too far for someoen to have taken what should just be an adult/mature discussion of ideas.

If I show you the darkness I hold inside, will you bring me to light?

#133

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:33pm

And if you remember the comment, it was amazingly moving and really quite apolitical.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#134

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:33pm

I have a good excuse! I got a call from my mother last night and I missed two speeches.

I'm not sure what's your point here and I have to find out what's the ISA, but I know she is his 3rd or 4th wife and there's no way they were married when he won the Oscar for "The Graduate".

#135

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:38pm

sending PMs to people is totally acceptable. If they are sent with thought and respect. If you receive a PM which is offensive, report it and block the sender. It's simple and you don't have to invent a time machine to go back to a happier place.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 06:38 PM

#136

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:38pm

oh, and also - I'll have to play it back (eek - I fear watching these horrible awards again) but all I remember Jerry Mitchell saying was something along the lines of 'thank you harvey for writing a story of love and morals that our society needs to hear today more than ever' (again, dont' quote me).

now, not that I'd disagree if he had said "it's not fair that I can't marry my lover because we're gay", but...I dunno, I don't really see how you find that offensive. Unless you know the show...you don't even know what he's referring to - it's not like he jumped up and started shouting "we're here! we're queer!" etc.

am I wrong? did he say more and I just don't remember?

If I show you the darkness I hold inside, will you bring me to light?

#137

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 6:51pm

Perhaps you're talking about the Emmy awards. He didn't win the Oscar this year, I would have remembered because I really liked Closer and hated the other nominees.

#138

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:01pm

Iluv, see a shrink.........you have issues

It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956

#139

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:03pm

"I dunno, I like, long to be a child of the 60's, when people were encouraged to and weren't afraid"

rKrispy - that's just it, though. I'm a total child of TODAY. I'm not big on that whole... protesting everything idea. I tried it. Really, I did. I didn't agree with the war so I started to protest it in school with shirts, signs, whatever. But I didn't like the attention. So I stopped saying it. I never really openly discussed my sexuality at school not because I was afraid of ashamed, but because I don't care for a lot of attention. I don't like to have to deal with confronation JUST LIKE THIS. Now, I came out in school and had no problems with any homophobia. But I was always asked to do presentations on gay rights issues for classes and frankly, I never wanted to. Because I knew I'd have to openly discuss my orientation. My orientation belongs in MY home. It has nothing to do with school.

Lastly, I identify as a human being. Not a GAY human being. There is so much more to me than what gender person I am sleeping with in bed. That, to me, is one of the smallest personality traits I have. It doesn't make me a person. It ADDS to the person I already am.

So, according to Chita33 in a PM, by me not going to pride events to support everything, I'm ashamed. No, I'm not. I support it when it arises and people sit around with me and talk about it at a get-together. But I don't bring it up because, frankly, I think, in a few years or so, we WILL be able to marry. I just think the country's in a bad place right now but it will fix and we'll have rights. Plus, I'm only 18 years old. I'm not in a hurry to get married so it's not a huge issue for me right now. Selfish, I know, but I hope that makes sense.

I am NOT ashamed. I'm just not someone who thinks that BECAUSE I'm gay, I have to talk about it or make a parade out of it.

"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman

#140

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:08pm

'I think, in a few years or so, we WILL be able to marry. I just think the country's in a bad place right now but it will fix and we'll have rights.'

All I'm gonna say (because there's a lot to say and I'm not nearly qualified enough to say it in any meaningful or elegant way) is that no minority has ever gotten anything by keeping silent and waiting for the majority to bestow us with something, like some benevolent father figure.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#141

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:09pm

Yeah we'll all reap the benefits. Those of us who were vocal and those of us who did nothing.

iluv chooses to do nothing. Very admirable young man.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 07:09 PM

#142

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:18pm

" rKrispy - that's just it, though. I'm a total child of TODAY. I'm not big on that whole... protesting everything idea. I tried it. Really, I did. I didn't agree with the war so I started to protest it in school with shirts, signs, whatever. But I didn't like the attention. So I stopped saying it. I never really openly discussed my sexuality at school not because I was afraid of ashamed, but because I don't care for a lot of attention."

Am I alone in thinking that this exact stand of most very young people, is the exact reason that society suddenly started going backwards ? The young were always revolutionaries, pioneers and fighters ! Seems like today's youngs, only care about themselves ! Yeah buddy, don't do anything, why bother ? But when they will start taking away more and more of your liberties and rights, it's gonna be too late to do anything !

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 07:18 PM

#143

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:19pm

Beaver......VERY well said, I've been sitting here typing out angry posts after post, only to delete.......as people like Iluv do NOT get it..........not at all.....they take, rather than give.
Thank you for nicely saying what I tried to type numerous times.......

It is ridiculous to set a detective story in New York City. New York City is itself a detective story... AGATHA CHRISTIE, Life magazine, May 14, 1956

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 07:19 PM

#144

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:24pm

I was surprised when the guy his partner...i was like wow...did i just see that?

Back, he spurred like a madman, shrieking a curse to the sky. With the white road smoking behind him and his rapier brandished high! Blood-red were the spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat, when they shot him down on the highway, down like a dog on the highway, and he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat... (The Highwayman. Sung by: Loreena McKennitt)

#145

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:25pm

Now now now now now now now!

Remember 18! Remember just coming out! Remember it all! It ain't easy.

I remember spending my first year at college completely out and loving it...then I went home for the summer and I was hanging out with all my straight friends from high school...and feeling COMPLETELY different and odd. And I actually uttered the words 'I wish I were straight.' So, as angry as some of the words might actually make us, we need to remember that young people of 18 are really wrapped up in themselves (as are people of 58...but in a different way).

Yes...a good whoopin' can knock some sense into folk. But remember that the whoopin' must come from love...for another sistuh.

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

#146

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:25pm

I was happy about the gay presence, and I can't believe that some of you people are trying to turn the simple fact that a few people kissed and thanked their life partners after they won into a political thing. Only I wish I could have been watching with some homophobic just to watch them get pissed off...not that too many homophobic people probably watch the Tonys but whatever. Anyway, I thought it was beautiful, and I'm glad that our society is finally starting to open up to have these types of things happen freely on whatever the hell channel that was (I don't remember). Oh and BwayBaby18, I totally didn't know that Sarah Paulsen was a lesbian either, and that kind of surprised me for a second, but I was ok. Elyse. No day but today.

Elyse. No day but Today. My avatar: me talking to Norbert Leo Butz.

#147

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:29pm

ILUV- If a man sleeps with another man, he is gay. But being gay isn't just what gender you sleep with. Being gay is growing up and not seeing anyone around you like you. Opening magazines and watching TV and never seeing yourself portrayed. It's knowing that a kiss or holding of hands could get you beaten up or ridiculed. That by just loving someone you could actually cause your parents pain.

When you say being gay is not what defines you, I think you truly don't know how much it HAS defined you.

#148

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:38pm

c'mon, give ILuv a break. You have to understand that not everyone is okay being in the spotlight. Maybe that will change as he lives more life and things happen that stir a passion inside that make him wanna put himself up front and speak his mind, etc. As for now, I can totally respect that he's not out to be a revolutionary.

Do I think that will change? Absolutely, but...I dunno, sad to say that sometimes you can't deny people that experience (like someone was saying of first coming out, and being young, etc.) and ask them to learn from your mistakes or what you've learned in life all the time, y'know? With something like this...I hate to say it, cause it sucks but I think if/when something happens to, again, stir something inside of him that angers him and causes him to want to act, then ILuv may disagree with his current opinion. But...I dunno, I can understand where he's coming from. He's 18, and although that was only 8 years ago for me, I definitely remember the feeling of truly believing I could conquer the world, that good would prevail because...well, it just had to. It's a whole different lifetime, remember?

But as someone was saying earlier as well, nothing like this goes away without fighting for it. And it sucks - I happen to live in a state where Issue 1 was passed abundantly, I think mainly because everyone who opposed it thought it was such a ridiculous idea that there was nothing to worry about - surely no one was so closed minded as to vote against something that had nothing to do with them and was just not necessary. But...what can I say, there are a lot of idiots out there, and they went to the polls that day. It didn't just 'fix itself' like I guess we'd hoped.

Look at history - not only of our nation, but the world. Similar things have happened and ended very tragically. And the point of history is to learn from it, right?

People like ILuv will come around. I totally understand where he's coming from now, and I also think once he lives more he'll hopefully be exposed to other ways to support causes without having to be the main focus of attention (such as the public speaking you mentioned) - it sucks that it kinda sounds like right now your options are center of attention or hiding in the shadows and just living your life in peace, y'know? There are other options but...yeah, I totally understand why you feel the way you do. Just...I hope you're open to changing your mind in the future.

Um, this whole post...random as it is...is making me desperate for a revival of Hair...weird...

If I show you the darkness I hold inside, will you bring me to light?

#149

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:48pm

I can honestly respect - and even understand - the impetus to seek personal privacy. What intrigues me is somewhat of a tendency to project that desire for privacy onto other people. In other words, if I don't want to do it, others shouldn't as well.

#150

re: Gay presence at the Tonys

Posted: 6/6/05 at 7:52pm

ah, DGrant, very insightful, I hadn't even thought of that.

Very keen perception on your part - good point.

...wow, it sounds like I'm being a smartass...totally not.

If I show you the darkness I hold inside, will you bring me to light?

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