Glee's biggest WTF Broadway moment is...- Page 3

[RainbowJude]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 10:58am

Johnnycantdecide wrote:Glee's biggest WTF Broadway moment is... "It's All Over" From DREAMGIRLS. I can't even believe this..

This is one of the more bizarre renderings of a showtune in GLEE. I can't imagine a context that would make this credible. It sounds stuck somewhere between reality and fantasy. Why are all the character names GLEE-centric except Effie? Sounds like it might be right up there with "Make 'Em Laugh" on the GLEE list of 'fails'.

hyperbole_and_a_half wrote:For a board that prides itself on hating GLEE so much, we sure do post a thread like every other day about it.

True that. It's all I could think about when I read the posts where a whole bunch of people were hating on BWW for posting GLEE-related news and video clips. The irony of it all amuses me no end.

broadwayjim42 wrote:[Chris Colfer's] "I Want to Hold Your Hand" was spectacular...

That it was. One of the high points of the series in or out of context.

Jordan Catalano wrote: Sorry but [his] "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" was CREEPY!!! Singing that song to your unconscious Dad [is just weird].

Sorry, but it wasn't. It suits your anti-GLEE bitchfest to say so, but it hurts your credibility.

Updated On: 10/2/11 at 10:58 AM

[sally1112]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 11:10am

I enjoy GLEE, and most of the numbers they do, but I do not in any way take it seriously. That helps make my life easier.

[RainbowJude]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 11:16am

somethingwicked wrote:I find it quite funny how GLEE claims to be a show about tolerance and breaking stereotypes, and yet all it does is marginalize the characters at every turn - Merecedes is defined by nothing but her ability to be "sassy" and sing well, Kurt is shallow, flamboyant, and bitchy, and Rachel is always in front, no matter how much she whines or how horrible she acts to every other character on the show.

GLEE can barely keep track of its narrative threads and characters, let alone really getting to grips with representation. That's why characters like Mercedes and Tina end up on the sidelines and Rachel ends up front and center. (I don't think shallow bitchiness is all there is to Kurt, so we shall have to agree to disagree on that point.) It's more about a general incompetence around storytelling than a failed attempt at equal representation, although that is certainly the resultant effect. However, I think it is the very duplicitous nature of the show that allows it to start conversations about intolerance and marginalization, which it certainly does going by some of the conversations I've browsed online about the show. Where those conversations go is another story, but if they proceed in the right direction, then the end - to an extent - justifies the means.

Greekmusicalfan wrote:Dear God, this obsessive GLEE hate is getting so tiring on this board! Is anybody forcing anyone to watch the show or listen to its songs???

Indeed. The irony of it all is astounding, isn't it?

[RainbowJude]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 11:40am

Greekmusicalfan wrote:At the very least, YES it acknowledges Broadway, YES it is stressing ARTS in school importance and YES, it presents teenage gays!

And, if I may add another "YES", it plays fantastically well to the high school audience at which it is aimed. It's a teen show, just like DAWSON'S CREEK or THE VAMPIRE DIARIES. Yes, there is some crossover appeal as there naturally is with any show, but it is primarily aimed at teenagers and I've seen teenagers get a great deal out of it. Does this mean it is not flawed? Of course not. The show has huge flaws, but those three "YES" points you mentioned are an incredibly positive light to cast in regard to the "YES" point I added: the target audience.

Greekmusicalfan wrote:Even if it's done horribly according to some, would you really want another police procedural or reality show in its place?

Jordan Catalano wrote:Yes, actually. And if THEY were done horribly, I'd want something else in THEIR place.

That's fair enough, I suppose. Still, the option not to watch GLEE (or police procedurals or reality shows, for that matter) still exists, so...

Updated On: 10/2/11 at 11:40 AM

[RainbowJude]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 11:52am

Jordan Catalano wrote:Or better yet, how about a show that focuses on the arts in schools (that make people want to support it), gay teens (that don't make gay people like myself want to actually gay bash the characters), acknowledges Broadway (without turning it into an autotuned nonsensical joke) that's actually DONE WELL.

Where's the evidence that GLEE makes people in general not want to support the arts in schools? (There may be no hard evidence to the contrary either. In fact, I think the only thing people really take away about the arts in schools is an unrealistic picture of how things work. But when was there ever such an accurate representation of this on TV? In HEAD OF THE CLASS?!!) Or the evidence that gay people in general want to gay bash the gay characters on the show. (Your hatred is your hatred, not everyone's. Are we to take it that this is what 'gay people like yourself' would like to do to the gay people upon which the characters are based? Because they are out there.) And how would you qualify the good standard of show aimed at teenagers in general that both acknowledges Broadway and manages to sustain itself over multiple seasons? GLEE may be flawed - even seriously flawed - but it works like gangbusters with its target audience.

Greekmusicalfan wrote:I understand what you're saying Jordan, I really do. And although I admit I love the show I can fully respect the opinion of others who hate it.

As do I, on both counts. I have a love-hate relationship with the show. Sometimes it is absolutely dreadful, but it isn't all absolutely dreadful and sometimes it is damn good TV. It's unfortunate that Ryan Murphy and his team have absolutely no vision for the show and barely more than the most abstract sense of what they wants to say through it.

Greekmusicalfan wrote:And as much as Colfer annoys me too, I hear people who were borderline homophobic, warming up and loving his character. Could it be done better? Sure! But any show that brings forth and center the theme of gay-bullying and actually makes a gay teenage couple one of the most beloved romantic couples in prime-time TV, gets my vote!

Agreed. And what is super-encouraging from my perspective is that even people I know who don't like Kurt at all still take away a consciousness around gay bullying and an openness around challenging what they see in regard to the gay people in their lives. So, my vote is offered up along with yours, even though, yes, it could be done better.

Greekmusicalfan wrote:It's just that I don't understand why every other day, we must have a Glee-bashing thread on the MAIN board!

It's all in the irony. I just shrug it off for the most part and find something else to read. After all, there are plenty of alternatives.

[tazber]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 12:32pm

I can't believe no one has metioned the offensive way that Kurt sexually harassed Finn in season one and then made Kurt the victim when Finn is finally pushed too far and calls Kurt's decor "faggy".

Decor that Finn now has to live in b/c Kurt so manipulatively set up their single parents so he could share a bedroom with Finn.

So I guess the lessson is sexual harassment is ok if you're gay and the object of your desire is straight.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 12:43pm

To be fair, the show DID address it later. But I agree, Kurt acts really terrible a lot but the show insists that he's a saint. It's cool if you want to make a flawed character, but at least acknowledge those flaws. Like how we were supposed to feel sorry for him not getting the role of Tony when his audition was the least appropriate thing he could have chosen. Let's face it: he's Ryan Murphy's Gary Stu.

Btw, as you can probably see, I watch Glee every week. And I complain about it every week. It's a cycle from which I cannot escape! I mean, the show has the worst continuity that I have EVER seen. And I am a continuity stickler.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 12:54pm

Speaking only for myself, I harshly criticize GLEE at its worst precisely because I think it is (or frankly, was) so good at its best!

As for production values (including auto-tune), well, that's television. If you want to see what real high school productions look and sound like, You Tube awaits.

Lea Michelle is enormously talented. If she's a bitch-on-wheels, that's nobody's problem except those who work with her.

As for Chris Colfer, the complaints seem to be about his character, Kurt, not Colfer's ability to play the part. (Exception: we all seem to think they take the counter-tenor stuff too far and push his singing into a range where it isn't strong.)

I'm so proud of all of you uber-gays who came out at age 7, but as others have already pointed out, Kurt "types" are not unknown in high school, and many find refuge in show choirs and the like. Wanting to "gay bash" Kurt reeks of (a) trying to be cute for a message board, or (b) the internalized homophobia of the would-be basher.

tazber, apparently your DVR cut out before the redecorating-the-basement episode was finished, but Finn said more or less exactly what you posted about sexual harassment: the final reversal was Kurt realizing he had been in the wrong.

That being said, I don't see how writerly incompetence is a defense (as someone else suggested) to criticism of the way the show represents minorities. When even MOR shows like PARENTHOOD and PRIVATE PRACTICE show interracial romances without a fuss, it's odd that GLEE felt it necessary to import an Asian-American boyfriend for Tina. Maybe that's what comes of being on before 10 pm.


Updated On: 10/2/11 at 12:54 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 1:22pm

...and then in subsequent episodes Kurt ignores Finn and gives him dirty looks when Finn tries to apologize.

So, yeah.... Kurt realized he was wrong. :-/

And I don't blame Colfer at all, I blame Ryan Murphy.

I don't hate Glee. I watched the entire season 1 on dvd recently.

My thoughts are simply that it's a musical, and like most musicals the reality is heightened. I'm not looking for verisimilitude in the show, I totally accept its nonsensical plot contrivances and paper thin characters as tools to set up musical numbers.


For the record, the best song on the show (that I've seen) was Cheno's version of A House Is Not A Home. I hope they bring her back for more guest spots.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 2:10pm

It didn't happen in the same episode, it happened many episodes later. I mean, when Kurt's dad says that Kurt was in the wrong. Btw, Kurt never acknowledges it.

[Wishing Only Wounds]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 2:35pm

I reluctantly watched about 20 mins of an episode last night. It was worse than I remembered. Far, far worse. I am not even going to listen to this recording.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 2:46pm

Thanks, guys. I've always wanted to be psychoanalyzed by GLEE fans.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 10/2/11 at 7:21pm

Thank you, tazber and SorkGoddess for refreshing my memory. Obviously, I conflated events from several episodes into one. I, too, was bothered by the family's lack of concern for Finn having to share a room with his someone who was interested in him romantically/sexually, and was relieved that the show itself dealt with the issue--even if it took a few episodes to get to it.

It isn't my impression now that Kurt and Finn are enemies, are they? And Kurt stopped leering at Finn, so I took that as some sort of recognition that the issue was resolved.

tazbar, I agree with you about the heightened reality of musical comedy, but after two seasons the plots have come to seem random to me. Maybe that's an inherent problem with doing a one-hour musical every week with the same characters.

Of course, another solution would be to explore the out-of-class lives of Tina, Mercedes and any number of other characters, most of whom the writers ignore except when they are interacting with Rachel.

And I totally agree about Chenowith.

***

Jordan, I assumed you were probably snarking and not actually intending to gay bash anyone. Is that too much psychoanalysis?

[RainbowJude]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 10:50am

Jordan Catalano wrote:Thanks, guys. I've always wanted to be psychoanalyzed by GLEE fans.

Oh dear. Another post rife with misperceptions on your part. Not surprising, perhaps, given the lack of any kind of perspective established in your posts on GLEE to in this thread to date, but a misperception nonetheless. I'm not a GLEE fan, you see. Not in the way you're probably implying here. I am very well aware of the show's problems and have no problem in discussing them when appropriate. However, I am also aware of the show's merits, such as they are, and I'm not into bashing GLEE simply for the sake of bashing it. There's no psychoanalysis here. Just a straightforward reaction to the way you represent yourself through your posts. If you don't like the way you're being read, maybe you need to think more carefully about the way your write. Of course, it's easier to be snarky, isn't it?

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 10:56am

Oh dear, indeed!

[hyperbole_and_a_half]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 12:45pm

Alright, I'll come out of the closet as someone who appreciates GLEE. I start every episode expecting a candy coated, hallucinogenic hellscape where histrionic high school stereotypes are coached by their impossibly homosexual faculty into making terrible life choices in small town Ohio, USA. Occasionally, "singing" and "dancing" takes place. I'll expect only about 15% of it all to be good work, but a full 85% of it will be entertaining. With expectations like these, GLEE does not disappoint.

I feel bad for those of you with your expectations crammed so far up your backside that you can't unclench long enough to enjoy GLEE, not even as a guilty pleasure. Congratulations if you have something better to do on Tuesday nights at 8 PM (brushing the hair of your Patti LuPone doll, or watching your five dozen bootlegs of Wonderland perhaps?), but dissing GLEE does not give you theatre cred, so really these hate threads and all the mutually masturbatory posts therein are wasted energy. Going out of your way to bash something as simple and stupid as GLEE only serves to cut you off from (yet another) vehicle for temporary, fleeting joy -- something we should all consider precious on this miserable, nightmare planet.

[Johnnycantdecide]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 1:31pm

I had no idea there was a Patti doll... where can I buy it?

[strummergirl]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 9:20pm

So actually watching the performance with song, the reasons behind what was going on with the choices made the song tolerable. It was Mercedes imagining herself as Effie in a situation and seeing all the members in certain parts. Of course her behavior in the episode is skewered toward her as a victim and sore loser even though she has valid reasons for feeling marginalized. The song used in her point of view worked in the episode I felt.

Technical-wise, I understand the criticisms.

Maybe I am a total apologist for this show but there have been many times where the recording was good and the performance in the context of the episode was terrible eg "Toxic" arrangement in the Brittney Spears episode. This recording definitely had WTF? quality but the context made sense.

That said, it was not what I will remember in the episode, not in the slightest. Harry Shum Jr. was awesome in this episode.
Updated On: 10/4/11 at 09:20 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 9:27pm

The writers need to friggin' Google West Side Story before their pure lack of knowledge makes my head explode!

[Edna Turnblad]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 9:36pm

Sweet Jesus, that was terrible. When Mercedes came out in that recreation of Effie's outfit, I was close to rolling in the floor. It was just bad.

[Eris0303]

Posted: 10/4/11 at 10:41pm

That said, it was not what I will remember in the episode, not in the slightest. Harry Shum Jr. was awesome in this episode.

He was. I'm so glad we got to hear him actually sing after the whole "I can't sing" build up. And the bit with his mom was so sweet.

[HumATune]

Posted: 10/5/11 at 7:28am

I feel bad for those of you with your expectations crammed so far up your backside that you can't unclench long enough to enjoy GLEE, not even as a guilty pleasure. Congratulations if you have something better to do on Tuesday nights at 8 PM (brushing the hair of your Patti LuPone doll, or watching your five dozen bootlegs of Wonderland perhaps?), but dissing GLEE does not give you theatre cred, so really these hate threads and all the mutually masturbatory posts therein are wasted energy. Going out of your way to bash something as simple and stupid as GLEE only serves to cut you off from (yet another) vehicle for temporary, fleeting joy -- something we should all consider precious on this miserable, nightmare planet.

You shouldn't feel bad.

It's fun to bash GLEE, at least for me. Sometimes it's just fun to bitch about something. I do the same thing with the show FAMILY GUY. I'm actually happy that it has a lot of fans, because it does raise the profile of musical theater. People have a right to talk about how much they love it, I have a right to bash it. I'm not looking for "theatre cred", I'm just having fun "trash talking".

I have plenty of guilty pleasures: Pan Am, OhNoTheyDidn't, and Days of Our Lives to name a few. Sometimes it’s just fun to bitch.

[sergio_27]

Posted: 10/5/11 at 11:07am

Acording to Kristin on E! Online, last night episode was "arguably the best episode of Glee, not just this season but in the history of the series".

"It isn't my impression now that Kurt and Finn are enemies, are they? And Kurt stopped leering at Finn, so I took that as some sort of recognition that the issue was resolved."

Didn't Finn sang to Kurt at the wedding, or they sang together, or something? I think that was the conclusion of all that drama, if I remember correctly.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/5/11 at 12:05pm

At the wedding, Finn apologized to Kurt for not being more protective/supportive during the whole bullying drama, and promised to be a better brother.

[broadwaybabywannabe]

Posted: 10/5/11 at 12:31pm

last night's episode was one of the best in my opinion in almost 2 years...the DREAMGIRL squence was so amazing i was applauding at the end...and the WEST SIDE STORY dance number was almost as exciting to watch as the real thing...what you haters dont get is that this show brings Broadway to millions who have never set foot in a Broadway theatre and for better or worse introduces
millions to musical numbers, other than what the listen to on their ipods...it just might spark more interest in the arts in high school and who knows what talent is out there waiting to be inspired...how can anyone complain about that...
Updated On: 10/5/11 at 12:31 PM