Grey Gardens vs. Caroline, or Change.

I know this may sound odd, but hear me out.

I went to see "Grey Gardens" against last night, and I still have huge problems with it. It's better, it's grown, and yet...

To me, it seems like a pointless show.

Ebersole is terrific. As is a bunch of the writing.

Believe me, I would rather see "Grey Gardens" six million times than sit through "Tarzan" once.

There is some terrific writing in "Grey Gardens." "A Revolutionary Outfit for Today" is a stunning bit of writing.

And yet... and yet. Here's my problem. There is nothing about the musical that illuminates the story. The story, if you think about it, doesn't lend itself to the process of musicalization.

And this kind of musical theatre never makes money. I hate that it doesn't. But I hate even more that people who didn't see "Caroline, or Change," or "See What I Wanna See," think that "Grey Gardens" is their equal. Because it is not.

I am glad you are more open-minded and less hostie in your critcism of Grey Gardens. Oddly, I have had a similar experience.

I did not like the Off-Broadway production; in fact, I almost left at intermission. But when I saw it last weekend, I fell in love with it. That's not to say it's perfect. There are some things I feel should be cut, replaced or returned. But overall, I adored it and have tickets to see it again on November 11.

I don't think it has to be "equals" of Caroline or See. I don't think anything has to be categorized as "equal" to anything else. What difference does that make?

---

I apologize. I always welcome an intelligent discussion.

I will say that I hold COC as one of the greatest musicals ever written. it burns when people try to trash it. but we have to accept that some people just didn't like it and if asked to compare it to gg, they would say that gg is better. well gg is more user friendly. or perhaps those characters and that story hit them more profoundly. and in the same breath, I accept that you don't care for gg all that much.

I think COC is a greater musical, but I think COC is greater than many great musicals. that shouldn't take anything away from good or great musicals. I don't see the need to have a contest. I enjoyed both shows. I hope both have as much success as possible on Broadway and in their future as part of the musical theatre canon.

I think gg is beautifully written--both hilarious and tragic with songs I love--some of which are instant classics. the performances are tremendous. and the characters and their story touch me deeply. it is still in previews--changes are being made everyday.

it isn't your cup of tea. fair enough.

---

Other than COC and GG both being Broadway musicals, I don't think they have anything in common whatsoever. Why do people compare those two particular shows?

---

I have yet to see Grey Gardens. A friend saw it while in New York on Tuesday and came back to Denver raving about it. And he brought up COC. He said that, yes, they are both different musicals and that COC took musical theatre in another direction and GG is taking it in even another. He thinks they are both equally brilliant but in different ways.

---

I am glad to know that I am not alone. When I saw Grey Gardens at Horizons, I was confused by its lack of a point or a purpose. I, also, thought Ebersole was brilliant and thought there were some good moments, but overall I left feeling kind of empty. I hope to catch it again on Broadway, but I still couldn't tell you what it was about or what the purpose was.

Indeed. I mean, stripped of its pretentious allegorical
tropes, CAROLINE OR CHANGE is about whether or not a maid
is going to keep the spare change she finds in a pair of
pants. Now THAT's a fascinating story with a PURPOSE!

and that COC took musical theatre in another direction

How did COC take musicals in a new direction?

Ciaron - in my opinion and others I have talked to, it was not your conventional musical and the score was so different/eclectic.

---

I did not say it "changed" theatre, just took it in a new direction.

---

I am actually thinking of flying into New York for a long weekend just so I can see Grey Gardens. Can't decide if I want to buy the CD before seeing it. I am on my way to Virgin Records to pick a few things up and I feel I will be tempted to get the CD.

---

I'm weighing in to say that I don't mind if there's a "point" or something profound in the story of a play or show or not. If I'm entertained and taken somewhere else, that's my criteria.

---

I don't think you mean point at all. you mean moral and that is an awfully trite expectation--especially when good theatre should ask questions, not provide the answers. and you ask questions by simply presenting the story.

I will tell you what is compelling about gg. two women who had everything lost everything by the unfair double standards of the men in their lives but also and more pointedly in their own inadequecies to overcome those defeats. edith was so full of herself that she destroyed nearly everything she touched. and these women slowly evolved from a world of high society to squalor--each of them never living out their dreams and thinking they can have their dreams come true simply by wanting them to come true. their sad, codependent, dysfunctional relationship became their undoing and their need to survive. it's all about independence, strength, humility, resilience, and fighting for what you want in life. it's a cautionary tale indeed.

and the fact that these are the relatives of jackie o makes it's all the more juicy.

now, you don't have to agree with me. you don't have to like the musical. there isn't a single musical or play in history that was liked by everyone. in fact, every single one of them had at least one person who thought that play or musical was absolute crap and at least one person who thought it was the second coming of Christ.

think what you will about it, but I do wish you would stop harping on it. (and this is the third or fourth thread where you have done so).

---