How about a black version of FOLLIES?- Page 3
How about a black version of FOLLIES?
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#50
Posted: 7/3/18 at 2:53pm
I get what both of you are saying. We want and need more diverse works to be written for specific POC to talk about specific experiences and that these actors and audiences can relate to. That said, it's going to take a long time as these things don't just happen out of thin air nor are they all going to be produced. We already have a century of incredible works in American drama and much more if go dip into classical works (like Shakespeare, Marlowe, Wilde, Ancient Greek works, etc.) that are already created and readily produced. These are the works that all drama students and actors study. Since they are considered core curriculum, and many of the specific American classics are now aging and reaching a similar status of being "fair game" then it's only natural for some of those works to start becoming available to all sorts of actors, even ones that may be funny to see with actors of a different race. And the "default" sort of stories far outweigh ones that are written specifically for African-Americans, Asians, Latinos, etc. in terms of sheer number.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#51
Posted: 7/3/18 at 3:22pm
Sally - Audra
Ben - Norm Lewis
Buddy - Brian Stokes Mitchell (maybe he should be Ben)
Phyllis - Vanessa Williams
Carlotta - Tina Turner
Will be the only Follies ever to make one single dime.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#52
Posted: 7/3/18 at 3:24pm
...
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#53
Posted: 7/3/18 at 3:41pm
Has any version of Follies made a single dime though?
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#54
Posted: 7/3/18 at 3:56pm
I do not want to see an all black version of FOLLIES! I want to see new plays and musicals about African-Americans, Latinx, Asians and ...
I do not want to read another thread where white folks decide what is best for non-white people.
I would like people who post on BWW to take the time to learn about theatre in this country beyond Broadway!
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#55
Posted: 7/3/18 at 4:24pm
Dave28282 said: "gypsy101 said: "some people in this thread need to google what racism actually is lol"
I totally agree. And not even all google hits are accurate.
Racism isthe exceptionalistic idea that races can be ranked as superior and inferior comparedto eachother. This can result in different standards for one race over another.
What is happening everywhere, and also in this thread is that people continue to separate. An "all 1 color" version of anything just because you feel you have the right to demand it 100% based on color only, is racism."
you’re the person i was talking about who needs to google racism because that stuff you said is not correct
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#56
Posted: 7/3/18 at 4:27pm
A Director said: "I do not want to see an all black version of FOLLIES! I want to see new plays and musicals about African-Americans, Latinx, Asians and ...
I do not want to read another thread where white folks decide what is best for non-white people.
I would like people who post on BWW to take the time to learn about theatre in this country beyond Broadway!"
Agreed. But this forum is called Broadway World and most people only get exposed to mainstream productions that appear on Broadway because those are the works that hit the mainstream (somewhat), so it's understandable that they aren't looking to see what every theatre company in the country is producing. Not to mention availability and access to those works may not always be easy and is dependent on whether they are published for the regular public to purchase. Plus, it's the works that most are exposed to when studying drama. Sometimes we get something contemporary and written by a POC.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#57
Posted: 7/3/18 at 4:56pm
This is one of the stupidest ides I have ever heard of. Follies is not about race and it is not like the David Merrick Hello, Dolly. A total gimmick that is totally stupid. Cast whoever makes sense for the role, black, white, yellow, orange, etc.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#58
Posted: 7/3/18 at 6:24pm
gypsy101 said: "Dave28282 said: "gypsy101 said: "some people in this thread need to google what racism actually is lol"
I totally agree. And not even all google hits are accurate.
Racism isthe exceptionalistic idea that races can be ranked as superior and inferior comparedto eachother. This can result in different standards for one race over another.
What is happening everywhere, and also in this thread is that people continue to separate. An "all 1 color" version of anything just because you feel you have the right to demand it 100% based on color only, is racism."
you’re the person i was talking about who needs to google racism because that stuff you said is not correct"
Oh, it is.
It just doesn't fit your hidden agenda.
Have fun with defending racism. I will continue to fight against it and refuse to think that one race is ranked superior over another and I will never treat people with that mindset. Neither positively or negatively.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/5/14
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#59
Posted: 7/3/18 at 7:38pm
Please go away, Dave.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#60
Posted: 7/3/18 at 7:46pmEvery time Dave enters a thread I feel like I end up in the twilight zone.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#61
Posted: 7/4/18 at 3:57am
1) Reverse racism isn't real so let's just shut down any discussions around that.
2) I left a theatre company recently for a variety of other reasons, but one of the kicker being that the artistic director (latino gay man) wanted to do a version of Company with a multi-ethnic cast (after we'd already talked about wanting to do only new works that season among one of which was a docutheatre about student protestors I loved), and his reason was that "we don't see enough POC in love on stage", which, yes--fine, but Company to me was not going to achieve that goal. There were much better new work choices that posed those questions and would achieve that point he was trying to drive home harder. Plus, I love Company, but I don't like to see it half-assed which due to the budget we had would've been the only way to do it. Again, I was by no means opposed to the idea of "diverse" casting, but it just didn't seem like doing this would've achieved what he was trying to do, honestly and that Company has been ageing more and more as every year passes--not that I don't enjoy the score.
3) I would really love to get to a point in our society where we don't think of "diverse" casting (meaning, diverse to white people--because white people are always the default race in theatre, and a large demographic of its audiences) as "re-envisioning or re-conceptualizing the work". It should just be. Most musicals are not told in realism. It always annoys me when people say "WELL HISTORICALLY {insert reason why POC cant play roles in musicals}" like so fahkin' what? Yeah Assassins is based on history but they're all dead in a circus in hell! Gypsy isn't even totally accurate to Gypsy Rose's life. In Follies act 2 takes place in like, a dream sequence that barely makes sense to me. If it takes you out of the moment that what would've been "white" characters played by POC, I suggest you are the problem. By seeing a play, we are dramaturgically entering an agreement that what we are seeing is not real, but a reenactment. It's a play. We are pretending. If we can believe grown @$$ adults are playing kids in Charlie Brown, why does it matter if a POC is in a lead in a role traditionally played by a white person? Why can we "believe" one choice over the other, especially if race is not a part of the story? White is always the default race in honestly maybe 90% of musicals for the most part. And at the day, it's better to cast with people of color than not unless it's literally a piece about slavery or institutional racism where race is a built-in part of the play. Period. Leah Salogna describes this view really well here at 3:53
4) The wording here--"black version"--suggests that a doing a version of the show the regular Follies with all white people is the "normal version", therefore instilling the idea that white is the default race. I agree with an earlier poster here that in this day in age, it makes more sense to do multicultural versions of classics as opposed to all one race.
5) If you are to do a show with just one race, you need to have a good fahkin' reason for doing it. If the company is only made up of members of a certain race in the cast/creative (which there are several companies that are like this), then it makes sense to me, and it would have to come from a director of said community. But doing it for the sake of doing just one race of people does feel racist, and if not subconsciously, implies that POC should be separated in their own version of the show--that the POC world can't possibly mix with the white world. It's got to be one or the other.
6) RE: Pearl Baily's Dolly--that was at a totally different period in history where POC were just started to really become mainstream in MT. It made sense then. I highly doubt it would fly now.
7) There are also tropes within "diverse" casting as well of POCs and what roles they are playing. What does it say if all the protagonists are white, and the antagonists black? What does it say if the role of an abusive lover is played by a black man, and what does it say if a sharp-tongued "angry" female character is played by a black woman? These are also things one must keep in mind. That's not to say that it can never be done, but it's something to be really conscious of.
How about a black version of FOLLIES?#62
Posted: 7/4/18 at 5:19am
missthemountains said: "The wording here--"black version"--suggests that adoing a version of the show the regular Follies with all white people is the "normal version", therefore instilling the idea that white is the default race. I agree with an earlier poster here that in this day in age, it makes more sense to do multicultural versions of classics as opposed to all one race.
But doing it for the sake of doing just one race of people does feel racist, and if not subconsciously, implies that POC should be separated in their own version of the show--that the POC world can't possibly mix with the white world. It's got to be one or the other."
Thank you for this good explanation. You've hit the nail on the head here.
Racism is the exceptionalistic idea that races can be ranked as superior and inferior compared to eachother. This can result in different standards for one race over another.
I say it all the time, these people do not realize they are doing exactly this. Separating. Widening the gap.
The focus seems to especially lie on black versions of things/black people. It is ridiculous that this "all black" talk is taken seriously. This has nothing to do with equality whatsoever. It's the opposite. For these people "diversity" means black instead of white but that is not what diversity is. In other threads we discussed the percentages of people in society, how that translates to the percentage of races in auditions, which means that if based purely on talent and not on race, chances are much bigger that every role goes to a white person, as it's the largest group in society. BUT all the odds defy this, as the percentages of black people in most projects nowadays exceed that percentage. That is weird, but great for black people. I would assume this out of balance percentage is something to be celebrated but I only hear more screaming and separation. What is actually the goal here?
Color counters are separators. I give this example now to show you the truth. Casting is about talent, not about color counting. Not every race has to be in every project. Thinking it does, and counting as if one race is worth more than another is a racist mindset. No matter how good your intentions are. This mindset is the core of the problem.
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