How bad was DANCE OF THE VAMPIRES?- Page 3

[meg_giry]

Posted: 6/4/08 at 8:16am

Sorry but Tanz der Vampire was never broadcasted in Europe due to copyrights - all existing dvds and VHS are intern theater shots or illegal bootlegs...

[meg_giry]

Posted: 6/4/08 at 8:16am

double post

Updated On: 6/7/08 at 08:16 AM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/5/08 at 8:36am

Bump

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 6/5/08 at 8:40am

There are loads are Tanz pro shot DVDs around, but yeah it was never broadcast

[philly03]

Posted: 6/6/08 at 9:34pm

Wait is IBDB wrong...or did the show actually have more previews than performances? I know it's not that unheard of..but

Total Previews: 61
Total Performances: 56

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/7/08 at 10:13am

Nope, IBDB isn't wrong. I'd also like to chime in with those who say the German show is better. And now, some words from my friend Jim:

"What went wrong? Everything. They turned a dark, brooding opera into a campy romp and then wondered why everyone hated it. The New York production was totally ruined. The producers of the New York show were like the Bush government: they may have been everywhere, but they weren't aware of anything. A true ****pile. It was so horrible, I hated it, I was disgusted by it, I disowned it. For that I was 'fired' by my manager, acting as producer!

David [Sonenberg, Jim's manager and lead producer on the show] wanted a musical comedy. We were told to put five jokes on every page. We ended up with two shows at war with each other. One was sensual and Gothic, the other was camp 'Rocky Horror.' I knew the critics would kill us for that. They were right about that one. We were the perfect target, a fat lady with a sign on her back that said, 'Kick me!'

And the new material that I did provide wasn't even my choice. My song for Batman, 'Angels Arise', was appropriated, annexed and snatched for this production, where it was wasted. Michael Crawford was awful, playing the vampire as a clown, with a horrible Italian accent. The show I wrote was not at the Minskoff. The show that is dear to me is still running in Vienna [sic], where it's called Tanz der Vampire and it was staged brilliantly by Roman Polanski. The one at the Minskoff was just a job."

Updated On: 7/20/08 at 10:13 AM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 10:15am

So besides the following:

Original Sin
Total Eclipse of the Heart
Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are
Tonight Is What It Means To Be Young
Angels Arise

What other preexisting songs are in Tanz der Vampire?

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 2:56pm

About 70% of the score was recycled material, even in the original Euro production, but out of necessity once Steinman was fired from the NY production, more material was pulled out of his trunk and apparently touched up by somebody (Don Black maybe, since he got credit for additional lyrics on "Braver Than We Are"?) for inclusion.

In show order (in NY, anyway):

Overture -- "The Storm," an instrumental from Steinman's 1981 solo album Bad for Good (theme also heard in 1984's "Nowhere Fast" for the Streets of Fire soundtrack)
Angels Arise -- the main melody is "Song of Gotham City" in unproduced Batman, but also incorporates a theme from "Surf's Up"
God Has Left the Building -- second half of "The Storm," though the theme is much older than that (also heard in the '77 workshop of Neverland and in "City of the Golden Egg" from '73's More Than You Deserve)
Original Sin -- "Original Sin" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart"
Invitation to the Ball -- "A Good Nightmare Comes So Rarely" and "Forevermore in the Night" were unreleased parts of the Batman score, and the Invitation sequence was as is in the German production, more of "Original Sin"
Death is Such an Odd Thing -- can be heard somewhere, I think in Confidence Man?
Braver Than We Are -- uses a theme also heard in Confidence Man
Come With Me -- has been reused for years and years, but can be dated earliest to Neverland and More Than You Deserve before it
Total Eclipse of the Heart -- self-explanatory
Carpe Noctem -- parts of "Come With Me," "Left in the Dark" from Bad for Good, and a track riff from both "Good Girls Go to Heaven" and "Back into Hell" off Bat Out of Hell II
For Sarah -- dead rip-off of "Milady" from Confidence Man
When Love is Inside You -- not a Jim melody, if you've heard the David Bowie single "Little Bombardier" (oops...did I say that out loud?)
Eternity -- started life as the song "Gods" in Neverland, then became an instrumental called "Great Boleros of Fire" that opened Meat Loaf's Bat I tour in the Seventies
Confession of a Vampire -- with minor variations, "Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are"
The Ball -- a blended combo of "Original Sin," "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (and "Come With Me," in the NY production, since Crawford just had to have a dramatic death scene)
Dance of the Vampires -- "Tonight Is What It Means to Be Young" full-stop (when Jim was fired in the NY production, 'new' lyrics that actually sounded suspiciously like someone turned to the original lyric sheet, crossed out the word "angel" and wrote in "vampire" were added since Jim wouldn't do the rewrite)

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 3:06pm

So Garlic was one of the few original compositions.

Gotta admit, even if 70% of the score is recycled, it's still a helluva score, right?

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 3:12pm

Indeed it is. Many of Jim's fans have pleaded with him to give up on Neverland and accept this as his final show because, in over 30 years of trying, Neverland has "never" come together, while Tanz is the one truly integrated score he's ever put out.

Meaning...recycled or not, Tanz's score is fully integrated with the plot, which can't easily be said with most of Jim's shows, including his upcoming Bat Out of Hell, set for a West End bow early next year.

Updated On: 6/9/08 at 03:12 PM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 3:23pm

I just wish they'd put out the rights to the GOOD Dance of the Vampires so it could be performed in the US.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 3:47pm

Contrary to popular belief, the rights to Tanz der Vampire are not unreleased in the United States. The reason this misconception is so known is that they aren't available through an American licensing agency, and the terms are a little strict, which makes it hard to present the show on a professional level.

THE TERMS:

It may be presented on a workshop basis as an exercise at schools with an active drama club or acting class of some kind going on. It will be restricted to said school and said school alone, with no public performances, no ticket sales, and no press.

The original English book and lyrics as written by Michael Kunze in 1997, with the additional interpolated "Red Boots Ballet" and "Say a Prayer" numbers as added in the 2000 Stuttgart production, are the only material allowed to be used (no cuts within material from other productions of the show are to be used without express written consent of Mr. Kunze, and absolutely no material from the NY production is allowed to be added under any circumstances).

The original producer and copyright owner will provide the American head of production (i.e., the one applying for the rights) with one copy of the original English language libretto. Only as many copies as needed for the cast are allowed to be printed, and of course there is the proviso that the script not be passed on and additional copies not be given to anybody else. They will also point you to retailers selling copies of the original German cast recording, both in full and highlights form, as source material for rehearsals.

THE LICENSOR:

The original producer and copyright owner holds the rights at this time. To apply, please direct your inquiry to--

Vereinigte Buhnen Wien GmbH
Kulturmanagement und Veranstaltungs
1060 Wien, Linke Wienzeile 6
Vienna, Austria

The exact address lineup I gave there probably isn't as accurate as it could be, but the post people should get it right.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 4:00pm

Intersting. You learn something new every day.

Dance of the Vampires -- "Tonight Is What It Means to Be Young" full-stop (when Jim was fired in the NY production, 'new' lyrics that actually sounded suspiciously like someone turned to the original lyric sheet, crossed out the word "angel" and wrote in "vampire" were added since Jim wouldn't do the rewrite)

Using the original Tonight is What it Means to Be Young lyrics for the finale was one of the WORST mistakes (among so many) they made in the Broadway production. It didn't work at all and seemed completely out of place.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 4:10pm

Well, as is implied in Jim's official statement, he wrote an alternate draft based on what the American producers wanted in 2001, when it looked as if the show would move forward with Crawford's name on the dotted line.

At some point, the producers thought Jim was too unstable to do the book alone, and if you ask me, based on what he wrote in the past, it may not have looked like a bad assumption. John Caird and David Ives were brought in, though Caird quit during the workshop stages. The final book (that Jim accepted, anyway) was equal amounts Steinman, Ives, and Kunze, hence the final credit.

On Day 1 of actual rehearsals, they started with said script, and made wholesale changes from there on in, mostly dictated by Crawford. When Jim refused to continue with changes he considered unnecessary just because Crawford didn't want to play the Phantom again, Jim's manager fired him from the show. About the only input he had after that point where new material came in was being asked if it was alright to use it. He never answered, so they just put it in.

(Eventually, during previews, he took a more active position where new material was concerned, mainly by saying this or that didn't work, such as the "Devil May Care (But I Don't)" and "Sometimes We Need the Boogeyman" material in the previews version of the Invitation, and suggesting that they try this or that. After a while, however, he began turning in pages of notes that were basically aimed at returning the show to its serious tone, which in previews would easily have been accomplished by removing only a small amount of the newer material. And the producers stopped listening. Jim fired his manager in an attempt to isolate him from the team and try to regain control, but was unsuccessful. Around 2004, his ploy having failed, he hired the guy back.)

Many of the choices made with said production were regrettable mistakes.

Updated On: 6/9/08 at 04:10 PM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/9/08 at 5:00pm

And how.

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 8:49am

Updated On: 7/20/08 at 08:49 AM

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/10/08 at 3:04pm

Also, a quick note on which songs were relatively original (again, NY order):

Garlic
Logic
There's Never Been a Night Like This
Don't Leave Daddy
Books, Books

There were many other instances of originality and/or recycling in the German show.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/11/08 at 9:58pm

"Contrary to popular belief, the rights to Tanz der Vampire are not unreleased in the United States. The reason this misconception is so known is that they aren't available through an American licensing agency, and the terms are a little strict, which makes it hard to present the show on a professional level.

THE TERMS:

It may be presented on a workshop basis as an exercise at schools with an active drama club or acting class of some kind going on. It will be restricted to said school and said school alone, with no public performances, no ticket sales, and no press.

The original English book and lyrics as written by Michael Kunze in 1997, with the additional interpolated "Red Boots Ballet" and "Say a Prayer" numbers as added in the 2000 Stuttgart production, are the only material allowed to be used (no cuts within material from other productions of the show are to be used without express written consent of Mr. Kunze, and absolutely no material from the NY production is allowed to be added under any circumstances).

The original producer and copyright owner will provide the American head of production (i.e., the one applying for the rights) with one copy of the original English language libretto. Only as many copies as needed for the cast are allowed to be printed, and of course there is the proviso that the script not be passed on and additional copies not be given to anybody else. They will also point you to retailers selling copies of the original German cast recording, both in full and highlights form, as source material for rehearsals.

THE LICENSOR:

The original producer and copyright owner holds the rights at this time. To apply, please direct your inquiry to--

Vereinigte Buhnen Wien GmbH
Kulturmanagement und Veranstaltungs
1060 Wien, Linke Wienzeile 6
Vienna, Austria

The exact address lineup I gave there probably isn't as accurate as it could be, but the post people should get it right. "

Well, all I can say is that they better loosen up their grip soon because this kid needs to play Krolock before he dies and I don't think I can memorize German.

[Mythus]

Posted: 6/11/08 at 10:05pm

Memorize it phonetically, that's how Steve Barton got his start speaking German.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/12/08 at 8:27am

Yeah, well there's that.

And gvendo, what other instances of recycling and original compositions were there in the German show?

[gvendo2005]

Posted: 6/12/08 at 11:00am

These people do speak English, you know. You wouldn't have to memorize German. I pretty much just told you that they're licensing the English script, and it's the terms of performances that are a tight grip. Latch onto your old high school's drama club or something.

As for more recycling, let's just go through the German song list in show order instead, since it's almost a completely different show in many sections score-wise...

Ouverture -- "The Storm," an instrumental from Steinman's 1981 solo album Bad for Good (theme also heard in 1984's "Nowhere Fast" for the Streets of Fire soundtrack) (American equivalent: "Overture")
Gott Ist Tot -- "Original Sin" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (American equivalent: "Original Sin")
Einladung Zum Ball -- "Original Sin" (American equivalent: part of the final "Invitation To The Ball" sequence)
Draußen ist Freiheit -- uses a theme also heard in Confidence Man (American equivalent: "Braver Than We Are")
Tot Zu Sein ist Komisch -- can be heard somewhere, I think in Confidence Man? (American equivalent: "Death is Such an Odd Thing")
Vor Dem Schloß -- their entrance to the castle, which borrows in equal measure from "City Night" and "Come With Me," both heard in Neverland in 1977 (American equivalent: "Come With Me" is the final verse of this song with the music that follows; the rest was cut, although the vampires' opening verse briefly appeared in a different spot in NY's Act Two during previews as "Something to Kill Our Time")
Totale Finsternis -- "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (American equivalent: "Vampires in Love (Total Eclipse of the Heart)")
Carpe Noctem -- parts of "Come With Me," "Left in the Dark" from Bad for Good, and a track riff from both "Good Girls Go to Heaven" and "Back into Hell" off Bat Out of Hell II (American equivalent: "Carpe Noctem")
In Der Gruft -- music from this scene started as "Who Needs the Young" in Neverland (American equivalent: a similar scene with Chagal and Magda in the crypt singing a snatch of "Death is Such an Odd Thing" that was included in this song)
Fur Sarah -- dead rip-off of "Milady" from Confidence Man (American equivalent: "For Sarah")
Wenn Liebe in Dir Ist -- not a Jim melody, if you've heard the David Bowie single "Little Bombardier" (oops...did I say that out loud?) (American equivalent: "When Love is Inside You")
Ewigkeit -- started life as the song "Gods" in Neverland, then became an instrumental called "Great Boleros of Fire" that opened Meat Loaf's Bat I tour in the Seventies (American equivalent: "Eternity")
Die Unstillbare Gier -- with minor variations, "Objects in the Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are" (American equivalent: "Confessions of a Vampire")
Tanzsaal -- "Original Sin" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (American equivalent: everything with the exception of Krolock's big death scene - gag me - and moving the minuet to before Krolock's entrance, which was a change to take away a big scare moment)
Der Tanz Der Vampire -- "Tonight Is What It Means to Be Young" full-stop (American equivalent: "Dance of the Vampires," with a horrible re-write based on Jim's lyrics for the original song that totally missed the boat and didn't even fit the moment)

ETA: What we ultimately learn here is that there was actually less recycling going on in Germany compared to the material that was added to the NY production, and what little there was wound up being lumped into the NY production, at odds with the rest of the production's tone.

Updated On: 6/12/08 at 11:00 AM

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/12/08 at 12:18pm

Thanks for the info. I don't know if I could get my high school drama club on board with this cuz my town's school system is pretty poor and I...kind of swore I'd never set foot in my old high school again.

But thanks for the song info. It's a shame that the show could never be eligible for the Tony for Best Score because it IS one of the best scores I've ever heard in my life.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 6/12/08 at 12:49pm

Double post.

Updated On: 6/12/08 at 12:49 PM