#76
Posted: 7/7/14 at 4:19am
This thread has reaffirmed my faith in the BWW community.
How can Leslie Uggums play Mama Rose? — Page 4
#77
Posted: 7/7/14 at 4:59am
Now I've seen some hilarious/outrageous/downright rude posts on this website, but this thread is something special.
#78
Posted: 7/7/14 at 12:36pm
I have an idea! 
How about we wait to see her actual performance before we judge her, or this production!
My only real issue is her age, but maybe her performance may overshadow that aspect.
We have to remember that this is the theatre. We have to suspend disbelief if necessary, and if you are not capable of doing that, and you just are not ready to accept that an black living legend is playing this legendary role, then just don't see the show!
Now, if you see it, and you don't like it for any reason, then please share! But as I said before, you may end up being pleasantly surprised.
How about we wait to see her actual performance before we judge her, or this production!
My only real issue is her age, but maybe her performance may overshadow that aspect.
We have to remember that this is the theatre. We have to suspend disbelief if necessary, and if you are not capable of doing that, and you just are not ready to accept that an black living legend is playing this legendary role, then just don't see the show!
Now, if you see it, and you don't like it for any reason, then please share! But as I said before, you may end up being pleasantly surprised.
Updated On: 7/7/14 at 12:36 PM
#79
Posted: 7/7/14 at 12:39pm
Seriously, the standard for "Living Legend" has been lowered significantly.
#80
Posted: 7/7/14 at 12:40pm
But at the risk of blactor coming on here and having his head explode all over the place, it does pose an interesting question of when it's "acceptable" to color blind cast roles that are based on real people.
#81
Posted: 7/7/14 at 12:44pm
It is interesting and I think when it comes to Gypsy and Mama Rose, it is acceptable. Mainly because, Gypsy Rose Lee, and Rose Hovick are not household names. Many people nowadays have no clue who they were.
However when it comes to Annie and FDR (like someone pointed out for some reason), I think it needs to stay with traditional casting because, I think everybody knows that FDR was white.
However when it comes to Annie and FDR (like someone pointed out for some reason), I think it needs to stay with traditional casting because, I think everybody knows that FDR was white.
#82
Posted: 7/7/14 at 1:04pm
Although most of this thread is facetious, it reminds me of one of the interesting things about that flop Grind: i.e. that in many cities, there were laws against mixing races on stage at burlesque houses. It's a nasty piece of history, and maybe we shouldn't pretend it never happened.
#83
Posted: 7/7/14 at 1:35pm
^ Thanks for clearing that up. I'm new here, thought these guys were serious.
Stephanatic
#84
Posted: 7/7/14 at 2:44pm
She's not playing it as a balck woman, she's playing it as a determined stage mother. What is so hard to understand? Do a little easy research on color blind casting over the past 30 years and you might learn something.
#85
Posted: 7/7/14 at 2:51pm
There are none so color blind as those who will not see.
#86
Posted: 7/7/14 at 3:06pm
A Biblical quote is appropriate because Jesus didn't like black people either?
#87
Posted: 7/7/14 at 3:31pm
But wasn't Jeebus black?
"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>>
“I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>>
-whatever2
#88
Posted: 7/7/14 at 3:37pm
I saw this Pepsi commercial once where he was.
#89
Posted: 7/7/14 at 3:37pm
Frankly, the one interesting thing in all of this is the very, VERY selected use of the "suspension of disbelief".
"I love Leslie Uggams, and yes she is not who this character should be played by, but I love her, so it is fine and everyone should go see it" versus "-- INSERT PERFORMER NAME -- has no business playing that role, they are completely wrong for it... What are they thinking?"
"I love Leslie Uggams, and yes she is not who this character should be played by, but I love her, so it is fine and everyone should go see it" versus "-- INSERT PERFORMER NAME -- has no business playing that role, they are completely wrong for it... What are they thinking?"
#90
Posted: 7/7/14 at 4:53pm
"YOU don't have to prefer it but I do
same way I would prefer a black Bess or an Asian Engineer"
But tradition has it that the Engineer is played by a white guy. Just as tradition has it that Queenie in Show Boat is played by a woman in blackface... I am confused by this whole tradition thing.
same way I would prefer a black Bess or an Asian Engineer"
But tradition has it that the Engineer is played by a white guy. Just as tradition has it that Queenie in Show Boat is played by a woman in blackface... I am confused by this whole tradition thing.
#92
Posted: 7/7/14 at 5:18pm
Well, there is precedent. Tootie played Eleanor Roosevelt.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#93
Posted: 7/7/14 at 5:41pm
Eleanor Roosevelt wasn't precedent. Her husband, Franklin was precedent.
#94
Posted: 7/7/14 at 5:59pm
Because Gypsy was only based on/suggested by, then just think of it as a story of a stage Mother desparate for her children/child to survive in show business.
Any race could perform the show if you forget our preconceived memory of it.
Any race could perform the show if you forget our preconceived memory of it.
#96
Posted: 7/7/14 at 6:22pm
just think of it as a story of a stage Mother desparate for her children/child to survive in show business
THIS TIME, FOR MEEEEEEE!!
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#98
Posted: 7/7/14 at 6:53pm
Love it Mr Matt--how do you find these things so quickly ?
#99
Posted: 7/8/14 at 2:16am
Mr. Matt, your photo is GREAT.
Seems like many of the threads lately are talking about race-blind casting, some more politely than others. In my view, FDR, Harry Truman, ANYONE can be played by a black actor, as long as the actor can be made up to look more or less like FDR.
Many years ago, there was a TV drama about Anwar Sadat, that was going to be shown live. I forget who was lined up to play him but, shortly before the air date, the poor guy died. I think it was Lou Gossett who was cast to take his place. Doggone, he looked like him! If I recall, he did a great job.
On to Leslie Uggams: When I think of Mama Rose, I think of a fat, coarse woman, a la Ethel Merman. If I were casting the same "type," I'd pick Roseanne Barr. Gee, I just named two Jewish actors to play a woman who was, I think, Italian. Are the neighsayers objecting?
I don't think Leslie Uggams is the "right type" for reasons having absolutely NOTHING to do with race. When I think of Leslie Uggams, I think of a dignified, classy lady. She's a fine performer, so she may be able to pull off a coarse woman. If I were casting Leslie Uggams as a historical figure, I'd think more of Queen Elizabeth I or II, Eleanor Roosevelt (if they can make her look horsey enough), or maybe Edith Bolling Galt Wilson, who may have been running the country while Woodrow Wilson was seriously ill. (What a great story, that would be, BTW).
I just reviewed a kids' play where the brother and sister were played by white actors, and both parents by black actors. God willing, kids will get so used to race-blind casting that they'll be amazed there was ever a fuss. Remember the days when people thought that inter-marrieds shouldn't have children because they'd be "confused?" Hopefully, this argument will disappear as that one did.
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one race: The human race. (OK, maybe more than one: The Tour de France, the NY marathon, the 2016 presidential election...
)
Seems like many of the threads lately are talking about race-blind casting, some more politely than others. In my view, FDR, Harry Truman, ANYONE can be played by a black actor, as long as the actor can be made up to look more or less like FDR.
Many years ago, there was a TV drama about Anwar Sadat, that was going to be shown live. I forget who was lined up to play him but, shortly before the air date, the poor guy died. I think it was Lou Gossett who was cast to take his place. Doggone, he looked like him! If I recall, he did a great job.
On to Leslie Uggams: When I think of Mama Rose, I think of a fat, coarse woman, a la Ethel Merman. If I were casting the same "type," I'd pick Roseanne Barr. Gee, I just named two Jewish actors to play a woman who was, I think, Italian. Are the neighsayers objecting?
I don't think Leslie Uggams is the "right type" for reasons having absolutely NOTHING to do with race. When I think of Leslie Uggams, I think of a dignified, classy lady. She's a fine performer, so she may be able to pull off a coarse woman. If I were casting Leslie Uggams as a historical figure, I'd think more of Queen Elizabeth I or II, Eleanor Roosevelt (if they can make her look horsey enough), or maybe Edith Bolling Galt Wilson, who may have been running the country while Woodrow Wilson was seriously ill. (What a great story, that would be, BTW).
I just reviewed a kids' play where the brother and sister were played by white actors, and both parents by black actors. God willing, kids will get so used to race-blind casting that they'll be amazed there was ever a fuss. Remember the days when people thought that inter-marrieds shouldn't have children because they'd be "confused?" Hopefully, this argument will disappear as that one did.
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one race: The human race. (OK, maybe more than one: The Tour de France, the NY marathon, the 2016 presidential election...
)
Audrey, the Phantom Phanatic, who nonetheless would rather be Jean Valjean, who knew how to make lemonade out of lemons.
Updated On: 7/8/14 at 02:16 AM
#100
Posted: 7/8/14 at 4:09am
One could easily argue for an all Black Gypsy. Potential exists there.
Without commenting on Uggams, I would say that at this point, a mixed-race Gypsy poses problems because we are dealing with a very specific. Segregated point in American history, we still are not actually blind to race, and the dynamic of black vs white could easily change the tone of certain events in the show in questionable ways... Did Rose not make it in the biz because she is black? What about the hotel scene / phony rape? Would people think twice about a black star stripper at Minsky's being the highest paid in the business? Are Rose, Herbie, Louise and the Toreadorables sleeping in tents because they couldnt find a hotel to take black customers / an interracial troupe in that era in that region if Texas?
It is wonderful to say that the dynamic would not factor in, but for enough of the audience, it quite possibly would.
Without commenting on Uggams, I would say that at this point, a mixed-race Gypsy poses problems because we are dealing with a very specific. Segregated point in American history, we still are not actually blind to race, and the dynamic of black vs white could easily change the tone of certain events in the show in questionable ways... Did Rose not make it in the biz because she is black? What about the hotel scene / phony rape? Would people think twice about a black star stripper at Minsky's being the highest paid in the business? Are Rose, Herbie, Louise and the Toreadorables sleeping in tents because they couldnt find a hotel to take black customers / an interracial troupe in that era in that region if Texas?
It is wonderful to say that the dynamic would not factor in, but for enough of the audience, it quite possibly would.
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