#51
Posted: 12/25/09 at 2:30am
I'd pay good money to see Kelly Clarkson as Effie, Lady Gaga as Deena Jones, and Clay Aiken as Lorelle.
Good money.
Good money.
Huffington Post on In the Heights non-Latino Casting — Page 3
#52
Posted: 12/25/09 at 3:22am
Mywonderwa11, I was referring to people's comments against the idea of color blind casting (ie Audra McDonald in 110 IN THE SHADE as John Cullum's daughter or the all-black production of CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF). I didn't mean IN THE HEIGHTS. Usnavy is Hispanic, Dominican, and I think he should be played by a Latino regardless. There aren't many roles in musicals available for Latinos out there.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#53
Posted: 12/25/09 at 8:53am
Craww, it's not a question of keeping an open mind or being unable to accept colorblind casting. It's just, as someone else said, jarring.
Whenever I see colorblind casting, I'm always taken out of the story for a few minutes trying to figure out, A) exactly who is supposed to be related, and B) whether the director is making any social comment with his casting.
If he is making a comment, great. But most of the time, he is not and his casting did nothing but remove me, his audience, from the story for a few minutes. No, it's not much, and I can easily ignore color once I get into the story, but the point is that I shouldn't be out of the story for a minute.
Whenever I see colorblind casting, I'm always taken out of the story for a few minutes trying to figure out, A) exactly who is supposed to be related, and B) whether the director is making any social comment with his casting.
If he is making a comment, great. But most of the time, he is not and his casting did nothing but remove me, his audience, from the story for a few minutes. No, it's not much, and I can easily ignore color once I get into the story, but the point is that I shouldn't be out of the story for a minute.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#54
Posted: 12/25/09 at 9:36am
Why "Ugh"? I used it as an example and it's as good of an example as anything else.
But it's not. There are reasons that the Dreams have to be black. No one is advocating that a black man play David Duke. If you can't see the difference, then you are either being willfully ignorant or you DO have some internal racism you need to confront. If you're knee jerk reaction to a black person playing a "historically inaccurate" role for their race is to say, "When am I gonna see a WHITE Joe in Show Boat? (or whatever)" then there IS something inside you need to deal with.
Craww states it much more succiently than I - I think most people agree that it's different when the content is race specific. But people need to stop confusing "historically inaccurate" with "race specific".
But it's not. There are reasons that the Dreams have to be black. No one is advocating that a black man play David Duke. If you can't see the difference, then you are either being willfully ignorant or you DO have some internal racism you need to confront. If you're knee jerk reaction to a black person playing a "historically inaccurate" role for their race is to say, "When am I gonna see a WHITE Joe in Show Boat? (or whatever)" then there IS something inside you need to deal with.
Craww states it much more succiently than I - I think most people agree that it's different when the content is race specific. But people need to stop confusing "historically inaccurate" with "race specific".
#55
Posted: 12/25/09 at 9:53am
This article is a typical example of a "columnist" writing about something when she is inexperienced and naive about what she is writing. Check out the recent Broadway grosses of "In THe Heights" and it is pretty clear that the producers are now trying to revive those grosses. Would the Huffington Post writer prefer that they just let their show go under, and do nothing? While the suggestion that they continue to cast only Hispanic actors is sweet - and would be the best thing to do in a perfect world - we don't live in a perfect world, and finding someone with the talent and star charisma to lead a Broadway show is not all that easy - despite what they may tell you in Musical Theater Acting 101 class.
#56
Posted: 12/25/09 at 10:26am
"Would the Huffington Post writer prefer that they just let their show go under, and do nothing?"
Would the Huffington Post writer care? Why should they? They're not involved with the show.
And, by the way, some of the arguments on here are asinine and so foolish - ya'll need to get a grip. You can't have a black Billy... That makes no sense. Who was the real Father, then?
Feel free to address it in the revamped stage edition just so they can give one talented black boy the chance to dance on stage. I mean, c'mon. What's the point?? There are reasons we pigeonhole characters and parts. Preconceived notions CAN be accurate on occasion.
Would the Huffington Post writer care? Why should they? They're not involved with the show.
And, by the way, some of the arguments on here are asinine and so foolish - ya'll need to get a grip. You can't have a black Billy... That makes no sense. Who was the real Father, then?
Feel free to address it in the revamped stage edition just so they can give one talented black boy the chance to dance on stage. I mean, c'mon. What's the point?? There are reasons we pigeonhole characters and parts. Preconceived notions CAN be accurate on occasion.
When I think about you, I touch myself.
#57
Posted: 12/25/09 at 11:02am
" If you can't see the difference, then you are either being willfully ignorant or you DO have some internal racism you need to confront. If you're knee jerk reaction to a black person playing a "historically inaccurate" role for their race is to say, "When am I gonna see a WHITE Joe in Show Boat? (or whatever)" then there IS something inside you need to deal with."
Phyl, I love you more than my luggage but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Do YOU feel that an all white cast to THE WIZ is acceptable? What about an asian Beneatha in Raisin in the Sun?
"Color Blind" casting is great and fine in roles where it doesn't matter. But saying that it NEVER matters says maybe you have more inside you to deal with than I do.
And just FYI, I had a black maid growing up so I'm so not a racist.
Phyl, I love you more than my luggage but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Do YOU feel that an all white cast to THE WIZ is acceptable? What about an asian Beneatha in Raisin in the Sun?
"Color Blind" casting is great and fine in roles where it doesn't matter. But saying that it NEVER matters says maybe you have more inside you to deal with than I do.
And just FYI, I had a black maid growing up so I'm so not a racist.
#58
Posted: 12/25/09 at 11:04am
If the show can't sell tickets, it closes. Then there A LOT fewer roles for Hispanics on Broadway.
I had no idea Marcy Harriel was not Hispanic. She's already played Maria in WSS and Mimi in RENT.
I had no idea Marcy Harriel was not Hispanic. She's already played Maria in WSS and Mimi in RENT.
#59
Posted: 12/25/09 at 11:15am
I wonder if having MusicSnob1 on their side is making anyone reconsider their position.
Would the Huffington Post writer care? Why should they? They're not involved with the show.
Absurd. The entire point of the article is that they care. If they care about Latino actors getting quality stage work, then they'd care about the Latino actors currently employed at In The Heights keeping their jobs.
Craww, it's not a question of keeping an open mind or being unable to accept colorblind casting. It's just, as someone else said, jarring.
Right, but I don't see why it has to have such a negative impact on the show that the benefits of colorblind casting are ignored. I don't see why it's so jarring. I can get why it'll take you 30 seconds of mental evaluation, but I'm just picturing minutes of gaped mouth confusion over something that I've always been able to process quickly enough to adequately follow the show. I guess I just don't relate to this deep sense of "black and white people in the same family? PREPOSTEROUS! ... Oh my god what's happening now!? Maybe that will be genetically possbile in the future! Is this set in the future? When the human race is living on the moon? If they're on the moon how are they breathing? UGHHHHH!!! Why is black Billy dancing so angry now? I've missed everything!"
Would the Huffington Post writer care? Why should they? They're not involved with the show.
Absurd. The entire point of the article is that they care. If they care about Latino actors getting quality stage work, then they'd care about the Latino actors currently employed at In The Heights keeping their jobs.
Craww, it's not a question of keeping an open mind or being unable to accept colorblind casting. It's just, as someone else said, jarring.
Right, but I don't see why it has to have such a negative impact on the show that the benefits of colorblind casting are ignored. I don't see why it's so jarring. I can get why it'll take you 30 seconds of mental evaluation, but I'm just picturing minutes of gaped mouth confusion over something that I've always been able to process quickly enough to adequately follow the show. I guess I just don't relate to this deep sense of "black and white people in the same family? PREPOSTEROUS! ... Oh my god what's happening now!? Maybe that will be genetically possbile in the future! Is this set in the future? When the human race is living on the moon? If they're on the moon how are they breathing? UGHHHHH!!! Why is black Billy dancing so angry now? I've missed everything!"
#60
Posted: 12/25/09 at 11:31am
My question is this: why cast a black Billy in the first place? There are plenty of talented white kids who fit the originally intended "image" of the character.
And no, I don't care two sh!ts that it comes off as racism - because I am a product of mixed races/ethnicities. And if no one else will say this then I will.
There's a reason we have preconceived notions and there's a reason that the creative teams (and casting team) almost always feed into it. Craww, you're naive if you think this isn't true. You need to spend a day behind the closed doors and really be a part of a professional casting process.... you'd be shocked with how politically INCORRECT they are.
Look, it's just a part of the industry. Time to accept it. If there is no black mom or dad, there can be no black child. It's as simple as that. And I don't understand why people want to break that logic of thinking. It's not racism, it's logic.
Again, remember - you're speaking to a "halfican american" .
And no, I don't care two sh!ts that it comes off as racism - because I am a product of mixed races/ethnicities. And if no one else will say this then I will.
There's a reason we have preconceived notions and there's a reason that the creative teams (and casting team) almost always feed into it. Craww, you're naive if you think this isn't true. You need to spend a day behind the closed doors and really be a part of a professional casting process.... you'd be shocked with how politically INCORRECT they are.
Look, it's just a part of the industry. Time to accept it. If there is no black mom or dad, there can be no black child. It's as simple as that. And I don't understand why people want to break that logic of thinking. It's not racism, it's logic.
Again, remember - you're speaking to a "halfican american" .
When I think about you, I touch myself.
#61
Posted: 12/25/09 at 12:14pm
Dude, you're a small time internet troll. A raceless, genderless, pointless breed of non-entities whose opinion is so demonstratively ill phrased that they're rendered 100% inconsequential. 90% of what you said has nothing to do with what I said anyway, so I'm even more content to let your points rest.
#62
Posted: 12/25/09 at 1:42pm
Phyl, I love you more than my luggage but we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Do YOU feel that an all white cast to THE WIZ is acceptable? What about an asian Beneatha in Raisin in the Sun?
Good. I didn't want you to take offense. I know this is something we don't agree on, but I can't help but continue to state my point.
As for The Wiz, I don't see why an all white cast is a problem, because the show is not about the black experience. Yes, it's traditional done with a mostly black cast, and I think it probably SHOULD be done that way, but it's not like Dreamgirls, or Show Boat or Raisin where those characters HAVE to be black.
I don't have a problem with a white Collins or Benny in Rent. For those roles - although they are almost always cast that way in professional productions - nothing about the part hinges on them being black or white.
If you can accept people bursting into song, or a fourth wall, or any number of things that make a stage show historically, social-economically or even simply logically inaccurate, I don't see why you (collective you, not to Jordan or anyone specifically) can't accept a black child playing Billy Elliot, etc.
There IS racial inequity in this country, in and outside the theatre world. Yes, it would be great if we were beyond the point where there was a need for color-blind casting, but we aren't there.
Good. I didn't want you to take offense. I know this is something we don't agree on, but I can't help but continue to state my point.
As for The Wiz, I don't see why an all white cast is a problem, because the show is not about the black experience. Yes, it's traditional done with a mostly black cast, and I think it probably SHOULD be done that way, but it's not like Dreamgirls, or Show Boat or Raisin where those characters HAVE to be black.
I don't have a problem with a white Collins or Benny in Rent. For those roles - although they are almost always cast that way in professional productions - nothing about the part hinges on them being black or white.
If you can accept people bursting into song, or a fourth wall, or any number of things that make a stage show historically, social-economically or even simply logically inaccurate, I don't see why you (collective you, not to Jordan or anyone specifically) can't accept a black child playing Billy Elliot, etc.
There IS racial inequity in this country, in and outside the theatre world. Yes, it would be great if we were beyond the point where there was a need for color-blind casting, but we aren't there.
#63
Posted: 12/25/09 at 3:25pm
I can get why it'll take you 30 seconds of mental evaluation, but I'm just picturing minutes of gaped mouth confusion over something that I've always been able to process quickly enough to adequately follow the show. I guess I just don't relate to this deep sense of "black and white people in the same family? PREPOSTEROUS!"
That's absolutely not what I'm saying. When I saw 110 IN THE SHADE, I was unfamiliar with the story and it took me a few minutes to figure out that Audra and the boys were John Cullum's children, and that time, however brief it was, took me out of the story.
Even when I know the relationship, it's not so much "It's preposterous!" as "Oh, that's interesting, I wonder what it means! Is there a pattern to the casting?" and I spend a few minutes trying to figure out if all the characters of a similar theme or trait are cast similarly, etc., only to finally decide that there is no pattern and I was taken out of the story for nothing.
Again, it's not that I can't comprehend colorblind casting, or that I am shocked -- SHOCKED! -- to see a black child with white parents. It just leads me to try to identify a pattern or a message that is not there, or it can be confusing if the relationships are not made clear right away.
That's absolutely not what I'm saying. When I saw 110 IN THE SHADE, I was unfamiliar with the story and it took me a few minutes to figure out that Audra and the boys were John Cullum's children, and that time, however brief it was, took me out of the story.
Even when I know the relationship, it's not so much "It's preposterous!" as "Oh, that's interesting, I wonder what it means! Is there a pattern to the casting?" and I spend a few minutes trying to figure out if all the characters of a similar theme or trait are cast similarly, etc., only to finally decide that there is no pattern and I was taken out of the story for nothing.
Again, it's not that I can't comprehend colorblind casting, or that I am shocked -- SHOCKED! -- to see a black child with white parents. It just leads me to try to identify a pattern or a message that is not there, or it can be confusing if the relationships are not made clear right away.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#64
Posted: 12/25/09 at 3:55pm
MusicSnob1 - I agree 100% with you on this one. I've spent some time behind the closed doors during Broadway casting sessions and yes...talk about politically incorrect! I had no idea the things that are said once you leave the room (as an actor), but there's certainly nothing PC about it all of the time.
A black Billy? An all white cast of The Wiz? Y'all are taking crazy pills if you think these things should be acceptable, I'm sorry. Of course, with community, educational, and some regional theatre they just don't have the talent within some minorities to cast appropriately, but in the bigger playing fields such as Broadway and major regional houses...there should be no excuses.
You keep talking about "historical accuracy" compared to "race specific" casting, but that argument just doesn't work with me. How dumb do you have to be? Usnavi is not black...Corbin Bleu IS black...it's pretty obvious. No, it's not the end of the world, but it does bother me. For what I think are obvious reasons.
A black Billy? An all white cast of The Wiz? Y'all are taking crazy pills if you think these things should be acceptable, I'm sorry. Of course, with community, educational, and some regional theatre they just don't have the talent within some minorities to cast appropriately, but in the bigger playing fields such as Broadway and major regional houses...there should be no excuses.
You keep talking about "historical accuracy" compared to "race specific" casting, but that argument just doesn't work with me. How dumb do you have to be? Usnavi is not black...Corbin Bleu IS black...it's pretty obvious. No, it's not the end of the world, but it does bother me. For what I think are obvious reasons.
"Somethin's comin', I don't know what it is but it is gonna be great!"
#65
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:27pm
BE CAREFUL, WONDER. YOU MIGHT BE ACCUSED OF BEING AN "INTERNET TROLL" AND A "RACIST" BY THE ENLIGHTEND MR. CRAWWWWW
I bow down before the heavens and repent for my politically incorrect opinions!!!!
Please...Give me a freaking break. Craww is the naive bast@rd & ignorant fool. Get off your high horse. You're viewing the world through rose glasses, Craww Crab. Sheesh! Am I really a self-loathing mixed product or just crazy??
As I stated - I have a black parent and yet I am not blind to the sad, but truthful, reality. Deal with it. I learned how to.
(I apologize for this post. Too much Christmas wine, but my point still stands Crabb Craw boy.)
I bow down before the heavens and repent for my politically incorrect opinions!!!!
Please...Give me a freaking break. Craww is the naive bast@rd & ignorant fool. Get off your high horse. You're viewing the world through rose glasses, Craww Crab. Sheesh! Am I really a self-loathing mixed product or just crazy??
As I stated - I have a black parent and yet I am not blind to the sad, but truthful, reality. Deal with it. I learned how to.
(I apologize for this post. Too much Christmas wine, but my point still stands Crabb Craw boy.)
When I think about you, I touch myself.
#66
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:29pm
I really don't understand what you're trying to say.
(ETA, That was for wonder)
(ETA, That was for wonder)
Updated On: 12/25/09 at 04:29 PM
#67
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:32pm
So whoever cast these Billys was on crazy pills, is unprofessional and should do community theatre?
#68
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:33pm
Colorblind casting is a delicate issue and should be a case by case issue. You can't apply the same rules for every production.
Did it matter that Audra McDonald was the lead in 110 in the Shade? Of course not. That show is not about race. It doesn't add or detract from the story to have a non-Caucasian in the role.
The problem with putting a Caucasian actor in a role played by an African American, for example, is that most African American musicals and plays are about race. It's central to the plot. Dreamgirls for example is about the rise of African Americans in the music industry. You lose the authors' message if you can outside of that.
Again, every show is different. It works sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't.
In the Heights was clearly wanting a known name to keep them afloat. There aren't any famous Latinos who realistically would take a replacement role. So they went outside their demographic for monetary reasons.
Did it matter that Audra McDonald was the lead in 110 in the Shade? Of course not. That show is not about race. It doesn't add or detract from the story to have a non-Caucasian in the role.
The problem with putting a Caucasian actor in a role played by an African American, for example, is that most African American musicals and plays are about race. It's central to the plot. Dreamgirls for example is about the rise of African Americans in the music industry. You lose the authors' message if you can outside of that.
Again, every show is different. It works sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't.
In the Heights was clearly wanting a known name to keep them afloat. There aren't any famous Latinos who realistically would take a replacement role. So they went outside their demographic for monetary reasons.
"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"
#69
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:37pm
No, it's not the end of the world, but it does bother me. For what I think are obvious reasons.
Yes, obviously racist reasons.
Yes, obviously racist reasons.
#70
Posted: 12/25/09 at 4:45pm
You're right, Phyllis...I'm racist. A big, fat racist!
Please, many of my family members are black and the person I am dating is of a different race. I am in no way racist.
Get over yourselves. So what...I don't think a black man should play Usnavi. Apparently, that also means that it's the end of the world.
Nothing we're going to say is going to change anything, so I'm just going to agree to disagree. There's no use in debating it anymore IMO.
Please, many of my family members are black and the person I am dating is of a different race. I am in no way racist.
Get over yourselves. So what...I don't think a black man should play Usnavi. Apparently, that also means that it's the end of the world.
Nothing we're going to say is going to change anything, so I'm just going to agree to disagree. There's no use in debating it anymore IMO.
"Somethin's comin', I don't know what it is but it is gonna be great!"
Updated On: 12/25/09 at 04:45 PM
#71
Posted: 12/25/09 at 5:50pm
Hey, you're the one who said it bothered you for obvious reasons.
Does the picture of the ethnic Billys bother you, too?
Does the picture of the ethnic Billys bother you, too?
#72
Posted: 12/25/09 at 6:01pm
To answer that question for myself.... the picture, no. if I saw them in the show, then yes.
When I think about you, I touch myself.
#73
Posted: 12/25/09 at 7:50pm
wonderwa11,
You still have not explained yourself at all.
You do realize that their are many black Latinos. Yes? If we didn't know Corbin Bleu's heritage, there would be no reason to believe he is not of Hispanic descent.
This is an issue that bothers many of my dark-skinned Latino friends (and has resulted in a number of very interesting racial discussions). They have physical characteristics (dark skin and afro-textured hair) that cause many outside of the Hispanic community to label them as "African-American" though their primary heritage, and cultural upbringing, is Hispanic.
You still have not explained yourself at all.
You do realize that their are many black Latinos. Yes? If we didn't know Corbin Bleu's heritage, there would be no reason to believe he is not of Hispanic descent.
This is an issue that bothers many of my dark-skinned Latino friends (and has resulted in a number of very interesting racial discussions). They have physical characteristics (dark skin and afro-textured hair) that cause many outside of the Hispanic community to label them as "African-American" though their primary heritage, and cultural upbringing, is Hispanic.
"You just can't win. Ever. Look at the bright side, at least you are not stuck in First Wives Club: The Musical. That would really suck. "
--Sueleen Gay
Updated On: 12/25/09 at 07:50 PM
#74
Posted: 12/25/09 at 11:15pm
I'm still not sure what the point of mentioning behind the closed doors of a casting session means. People say nasty things in private? Duh.
It still doesn't change the fact that there IS a black Billy Elliot, which kind of discounts everything else he's said.
And I never called you racist. I said the reasoning was racist. And getting defensive about it doesn't help your case.
It still doesn't change the fact that there IS a black Billy Elliot, which kind of discounts everything else he's said.
And I never called you racist. I said the reasoning was racist. And getting defensive about it doesn't help your case.
Updated On: 12/25/09 at 11:15 PM
#75
Posted: 12/26/09 at 1:15am
I've explained my reasonings for my opinion in another thread similar to this one before and I don't want to be caught in the middle of a debate.
I'm sorry if your opinions differ from mine and I'm sorry if I came off too strong and offended anybody. Those weren't my intentions.
I'm just not a big fan of this casting decision. If we were at a table having brunch then I would gladly express my thoughts and opinions more thoroughly. But, unfortunately we're on an internet message board where the tone of my posts can be misleading.
I love In The Heights and hope that Corbin Bleu brings in more ticket sales and I am sure he will do fine in the role. I think Mr. Bleu is a talented young man.
I don't want to give off a vibe that I am close-minded or anything near racist.
If you're really interested in knowing why I feel the way I do about this topic then PM me or search the message boards.
Once again, I just don't want it to seem like I am arguing with anyone in a negative way. We all have our opinions and no one's are going to change.
But, with that said...best of luck to Mr. Bleu.
I'm sorry if your opinions differ from mine and I'm sorry if I came off too strong and offended anybody. Those weren't my intentions.
I'm just not a big fan of this casting decision. If we were at a table having brunch then I would gladly express my thoughts and opinions more thoroughly. But, unfortunately we're on an internet message board where the tone of my posts can be misleading.
I love In The Heights and hope that Corbin Bleu brings in more ticket sales and I am sure he will do fine in the role. I think Mr. Bleu is a talented young man.
I don't want to give off a vibe that I am close-minded or anything near racist.
If you're really interested in knowing why I feel the way I do about this topic then PM me or search the message boards.
Once again, I just don't want it to seem like I am arguing with anyone in a negative way. We all have our opinions and no one's are going to change.
But, with that said...best of luck to Mr. Bleu.
"Somethin's comin', I don't know what it is but it is gonna be great!"
Updated On: 12/26/09 at 01:15 AM
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