Is it okay to film the curtain call?- Page 2

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 2/23/14 at 10:09pm

It's still a federal law that prohibits filming live performances without the knowledge and consent of those you are filming.

The curtain call is part of the performance. I'm willing to bet that should a producer decide it is worth their time to prosecute somebody for bootlegging their show that this statute will be applied.

When you are filming from the audience you did not get the consent of anyone that you are filming and you are doing it without their knowledge.

I'm not debating whether bootlegs should or should not be allowed. I'm saying that federal law says they are illegal. If you illegally film that performance and then try to use that footage in some way under fair use laws I'd be willing to bet you would lose that legal battle since the source material you are trying to use was illegally obtained in the first place.

[vegas2]

Posted: 2/23/14 at 10:20pm

2319A only prohibits recording live musical performances. As I pointed out previously, curtain calls would not be covered by this statute unless live music is being performed during the curtain call.
Even if music is performed during the curtain call, this criminal statute is violated only if the filming is done for commercial advantage or financial gain.
So this statute simply doesn't apply to an enthusiastic fan who has no commercial intent.
To bring a legal action against that enthusiastic fan, you have to find authority in state or municipal law. Federal copyright law is not going to get you very far because of fair use.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 2/23/14 at 10:34pm

Article 275, New York Penal Law (to go along with the federal statutes)

S 275.32 Unauthorized operation of a recording device in a motion picture
or live theater in the third degree.
1.A person is guilty of unlawful operation of a recording device in a motion picture
or live theater in the third degree when without authority or written permission
from the operator of a motion picture theater or live theater, the person operates
a recording device in such theater.
2.As used in this section (a) "recording device" means a photographic or video camera,
or any audiovisual recording function of any device used for recording the sound or
picture of a motion picture;
(b)"operator" means the owner or lessee of a motion picture theater or live theater
or the authorized agent or employee of such owner or lessee;
(c)"motion picture theater" means a theater, screening room, auditorium or
other venue that is being utilized primarily for the exhibition of a motion picture
at the time of the offense; and
(d)"live theater" means a concert hall, recital hall, theater, or
auditorium in which a presentation is rendered, consisting in whole or
in part of a musical, dramatic, dance, or other stage rendition by one
or more professional performers who appear in person in the immediate
presence of their audiences, and admission to which is limited by its
operator to persons holding an admission ticket or who have other
authority or written permission to enter. Live theater shall not mean or
include a musical, dramatic, dance, or other stage rendition that is
performed by students enrolled in a school or college or as a part of a
children's camp or similar program.
Unauthorized operation of a recording device in a motion picture or live
theater is a violation.

[vegas2]

Posted: 2/23/14 at 11:13pm

That is exactly the kind of state law I was referring to.

It has no connection with federal copyright law, and cannot be bootstrapped into a federal copyright violation. These are two separate legal regimes.

The federal fair use statute can still apply even if there is a state law prohibiting the recording. The recording need not be "legal" under state law in order to be a fair use. Were it otherwise, states could pass laws to nullify fair use altogether, a result that is prohibited under the federal preemption doctrine.

So, as I have said repeatedly, in most cases state or municipal law provides the only legal remedy against one who films a curtain call.

[blaxx]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 12:57am

Most curtain calls are not live musical performances, so this statute does not apply.

Have you ever been to a musical? All curtain calls are live musical performances!

I apologize if you are deaf and blind and never noticed.

[vegas2]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 1:46am

And straight plays don't have curtain calls?

Plus, as I said before but you apparently couldn't comprehend, 2319A is not a copyright statute, and it only applies to commercial activities, so it does not make filming curtain calls a copyright violation even if music is performed.

Apparently you can't engage in a discussion without insulting people.



Updated On: 2/24/14 at 01:46 AM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 7:00am

For all of you so adamant in filming curtain calls, (though for the life of my I can't understand why) please do it during a show starring Patti LuPone. Make sure she sees you.

[sondhead]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 7:58am

I think the bigger question is ....why would anyone want to film a curtain call? The show, I understand (and agree that it is and should be illegal). But the curtain call? Are you actually going to watch that in the future?

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 8:15am

Never underestimate the craziness of BWW posters, sondhead....

[morosco]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 8:46am

Has anyone ever been arrested for taking a picture? Who calls the police? The house manager? The stage manager? Who presses charges? The theatre? The show? I've never ever heard of anyone actually being arrested.

[Patash]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 9:16am

"Most curtain calls are not live musical performances, so this statute does not apply."

Scratching my head over this comment. Does it mean those performers singing and/or dancing the final curtain calls are actually recorded -- or maybe projected on a screen so we think they are real when they've actually already left the theatre?

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 9:41am

I took one picture of the final bow of "Movin Out" many years ago, did not think it bothered anyone and I did not use the picture for commercial use. The picture is just one of the thousands on my computer and never even printed a copy of it. I just thought it would be nice as a "souvenir" and my both my daughters bought a program. I understand the law is the law and would not do it again but I really don't think people taking one picture of the curtain call are trying to profit from it. Finally, the only reason I even had my camera is dinner ran late and I did not have time to run back to hotel to put it away before curtain.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 11:34am

Their use of the picture or recording is completely irrelevant. It's against the law.

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 12:12pm

Lisa - I understand it is against the law but IMO it is a law because they don't want people to profit from their artistic property monetarily or use their vision in another artistic performance. I was just saying in that one case I did it just because I thought it would be neat to have and there was no ulterior motive. Like I stated, I would not do it again. It was one of those rare moments when I actually had a camera with me at the show and did not think a picture (yes it is against the law) of the final bow would really be that big of a deal.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 12:55pm

So many stupid, self entitled people.


Take all the fcuking pictures you want.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 2:16pm

You know, this conversation would be far more interesting and fruitful if it were more than a toddler and a parent at a Stand-off over a juice box or a small child asking why the sky is blue and being told "because it just is" as though that were a response of substance.
I say that without taking stance on either side of the issue, but find myself just shaking my head.

[DAME]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 2:18pm

I love a good curtain call. can you all start posting some of them? I love watching them. I hate when people go thru the trouble of filming shows and don't include the curtain call. For me one of the best parts of a show.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 3:55pm

I'll gladly show you my curtain call...

[DAME]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 3:57pm

Take a bow girl. Take a bow.

[vegas2]

Posted: 2/24/14 at 6:43pm

Patash --

Somehow I missed the part where Cherry Jones sang and danced her way through the Glass Menagerie curtain call.

(Edited because I am one of the few who actually saw "Imaginary Friends.")


Updated On: 2/24/14 at 06:43 PM

[cmorrow]

Posted: 2/25/14 at 6:11am

Re: the comment by Gothampc:

“I say yes you should and damn the rules. Imagine how great it would be if someone had taken video of Laurette Taylor's performance of The Glass Menagerie. Art belongs to the people and when it's locked away and controlled by the tight-asses at Lincoln Center Library, then it becomes dead.”

Art belongs to the people? What an interesting theory. In that case, you should steal library books because, you know, you’re the people, and they belong to you. Next, head straight for MoMA, walk in without paying, and take a Picasso off the wall. On your way out, tell the security guards that you’re taking it back to your apartment, because art belongs to the people.

P.S. Before you go to MoMA, please announce it on this board, because I want to be there and capture the moment with my camera.

[Princeton Returns]

Posted: 2/25/14 at 7:22am

It amused me when Gina Beck recently posted a video on her Instagram of the UK tour curtain call of Happy Days The Musical.

[Patash]

Posted: 2/25/14 at 1:23pm

"Patash --

Somehow I missed the part where Cherry Jones sang and danced her way through the Glass Menagerie curtain call."

Oh, yes, you're right. I'm sorry. I thought most people here were intelligent enough to reason that musical performance curtain calls refers to curtain calls of musical performances. But clearly I made an error there.

[kyrsten]

Posted: 3/2/14 at 3:07am

I just don't think taking pictures is respectful

now, lets talk more about imaginary friends :)

Updated On: 3/2/14 at 03:07 AM

[jayinchelsea]

Posted: 3/2/14 at 9:35am

At a recent performance of AT MIDNIGHT, the otherwise rowdy couple in front of us videoed and took flash photos (!) on their phone of kd lang during the performance, and no one stopped them or came over to take away their phone. It sure pissed off the audience around us (we were in the 8th row orchestra side). From their behavior, it seemed as though this couple (who talked through the show and were otherwise obnoxious) had never been to a legit theatre before, and treated it more as a rock concert.

On a different note, many years ago I attended the final Broadway performance of SWEENEY TODD, and was in the first row center orchestra, and as an earlier poster mentioned, happened to have my camera. At the final bow, I took a number of photos, and sent one to Steve Sondheim as a gift. He was very pleased.