#26
Posted: 7/8/11 at 12:59pm
Phyliss, there were not ghosts in that number (as there were at Papermill) but it seems as if there more ghost about, maybe because of Vincent and Vanessa.
Jayne Houdyshell & More Join FOLLIES Broadway Cast — Page 2
#27
Posted: 7/8/11 at 1:09pm
Gotcha. I think the problem with the montage as it is now (and it's a problem of the script now) is that the number comes organically out of the scene and dialogue instead of just starting out of nowhere. I think it's more effective the latter way. Oh well.
#28
Posted: 7/8/11 at 2:15pm
(And suddenly, the stage is clear and dark except for Emily and Theodore Whitman, who stand as if they were about to speak. Instead of speaking, they burst into song)
(The number goes as quickly as it came, almost as ifit never happened. The Whitmans stand immobile at one side of the stage as Solange La Fitte comes toward us out of the darkness.)
(Solange stands motionless, arms outflung, opposite the Whitmans as Hattie Walker strides out of the shadows and into a spotlight)
(Spotlights return to the Whitmans and Solange as they come to life and join Hattie, all three songs pounding out at once,)
(The number goes as quickly as it came, almost as ifit never happened. The Whitmans stand immobile at one side of the stage as Solange La Fitte comes toward us out of the darkness.)
(Solange stands motionless, arms outflung, opposite the Whitmans as Hattie Walker strides out of the shadows and into a spotlight)
(Spotlights return to the Whitmans and Solange as they come to life and join Hattie, all three songs pounding out at once,)
#29
Posted: 7/8/11 at 2:21pm
^ Another reason why the original book is and always will be superior to any subsequent versions.
Also, for some reason, every time I see the name Jayne Houdyshell I get a picture of Miriam Margolyes in my head.
Also, for some reason, every time I see the name Jayne Houdyshell I get a picture of Miriam Margolyes in my head.
Updated On: 7/8/11 at 02:21 PM
#30
Posted: 7/8/11 at 3:51pm
CPD--are you sure there were no ghosts in the original Montage?
I seem to remember there being a Young Hattie in the show, but perhaps she just did general Bennett-Prince ghost staging, following Hattie on her entrance and in other scenes.
I seem to remember there being a Young Hattie in the show, but perhaps she just did general Bennett-Prince ghost staging, following Hattie on her entrance and in other scenes.
#31
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:19pm
PJ. I thought there were more ghosts also, but the Original cast list in the original book/script only list a young Vanessa, Stella, Heidi, Phyliss and Sally. There were 6 showgirls/ghosts beside the dancers. I think the staging was very important in making the ghosts more present in the action.
#32
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:29pm
I know in some of the old footage of the show, you see a younger version of Hattie when Ethel Shutta makes her first entrance during the overture, and the Chapin book specifically refers to Mary Jane Houdina being Young Hattie. But - and this seems backed up by CPD's recollection - I was under the impression that she wasn't on stage during Broadway Baby.
#33
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:40pm
If the old book was so great - and what Curtain posted sounds really great - why did they change it so much? I don't think Eric S. is really a great visionary director, which is maybe what this project needs.
#34
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:40pm
There was definitely a Young Hattie, and Mary Jane Houdina definitely played her. I'm not sure why her name is not listed in the book. It's on IBDB.
And I know my mind sees things from that production that were only in my mind, but I picture Ethel Shutta striding in and planting herself dead center while upstage, a more delicate version in an all-gray costume looked at her curiously.
At any rate, Mary Jane is "still here." I sent her an email asking her if she was onstage during Ethel's number.
And I know my mind sees things from that production that were only in my mind, but I picture Ethel Shutta striding in and planting herself dead center while upstage, a more delicate version in an all-gray costume looked at her curiously.
At any rate, Mary Jane is "still here." I sent her an email asking her if she was onstage during Ethel's number.
#35
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:41pm
And Kelli O'Hara (of all people) played Young Hattie in the 2001 production!
#36
Posted: 7/8/11 at 4:47pm
If the old book was so great - and what Curtain posted sounds really great - why did they change it so much?
The book tends to take the brunt of the blame for the issues people have with the show. Even though I'm a fan of the book (the original), I suppose that's fair, although it's hard to know what exactly the book needs to be considered equal to Sondheim's music and lyrics. All of Goldman's subsequent don't improve on the original book at all and in the case of the Roundabout and Encores book, they just leave the book as a shell of the original. At least in the case of the London book, as awful as it is, it was a drastic reconception. The book now follows the original pretty closely, but almost every line seems to be shorn of any wit and shading.
The book tends to take the brunt of the blame for the issues people have with the show. Even though I'm a fan of the book (the original), I suppose that's fair, although it's hard to know what exactly the book needs to be considered equal to Sondheim's music and lyrics. All of Goldman's subsequent don't improve on the original book at all and in the case of the Roundabout and Encores book, they just leave the book as a shell of the original. At least in the case of the London book, as awful as it is, it was a drastic reconception. The book now follows the original pretty closely, but almost every line seems to be shorn of any wit and shading.
#37
Posted: 7/8/11 at 6:25pm
According to Mary Jane Houdina, she was onstage when Ethel Shutta made her appearance in the opening--as were, she says, "the ghosts of everyone"--but during "Broadway Baby" and the Montage, there was only the one showgirl with the Indian headress, played by Kathy Dalton.
#38
Posted: 7/8/11 at 6:40pm
It was probably a money thing, if they didn't list the ghosts by name they didn't get a seperate rider.
Who knows why Goldman tinkered with the book so much, maybe he was bored.
Who knows why Goldman tinkered with the book so much, maybe he was bored.
#39
Posted: 7/8/11 at 6:43pm
And Kelli O'Hara graduated from Young Hattie to Young Phyllis at some point during the run of the revival as well.
Thanks for hunting down that answer, PJ.
Thanks for hunting down that answer, PJ.
#40
Posted: 7/8/11 at 6:58pm
Thank you for all the information on the ghosts/younger versions of people in the show.
Even if the original version did not make use of the ghosts, as the DC show stands, I felt like the ghosts were really underutilized (though it was nice to have them stick around during intermission). Seeing the original stage directions that CPD posted, I can see that the cast almost acted like thier own ghosts, freezing in place and then resuming for the montage.
With the more up-front and direct presentation style of the songs that Schaffer uses, I think that having the ghosts would reinforce the whole "memory" aspect of the show the way the original stage directions did.
Oh, and one other thing. Please make young Stella mouth the words that modern Stella is singing, instead of singing along with the rest of the chorus. That really bothered me while watching the show in DC for some reason.
Even if the original version did not make use of the ghosts, as the DC show stands, I felt like the ghosts were really underutilized (though it was nice to have them stick around during intermission). Seeing the original stage directions that CPD posted, I can see that the cast almost acted like thier own ghosts, freezing in place and then resuming for the montage.
With the more up-front and direct presentation style of the songs that Schaffer uses, I think that having the ghosts would reinforce the whole "memory" aspect of the show the way the original stage directions did.
Oh, and one other thing. Please make young Stella mouth the words that modern Stella is singing, instead of singing along with the rest of the chorus. That really bothered me while watching the show in DC for some reason.
Xanadu! Can't cry on cue!
#41
Posted: 7/8/11 at 7:41pm
The book has never been good. One doesn't go to see Follies for the book. Goldman wrote one good thing in his life: the surprisingly restrained and intelligent screenplay for Nicholas and Alexandra. The Lion in Winter is a cliche-ridden exercise in bombast signifying nothing that can occasionally be compensated for by grand casting. Deemed knee-jerk high-brow because of its subject matter, Lion had the benefit of a beautifully directed and excitingly cast film adaptation that has rightly become a classic - never has a film company done so much with so little to work with.
The spoken scenes in Follies are flat, predictable and boring, with the characters coming to full-blooded life in song only to retreat into dull caricature when they speak.
There is a reason that Two Gentlemen of Verona won the tony that year, and it wasn't its merely amiable score - Follies is, obviously one of the great scores in theater history - it's that Two Gentleman had a libretto by an honest to goodness writer, John Guare, who entertainingly adapted second-rate Shakespeare.
The spoken scenes in Follies are flat, predictable and boring, with the characters coming to full-blooded life in song only to retreat into dull caricature when they speak.
There is a reason that Two Gentlemen of Verona won the tony that year, and it wasn't its merely amiable score - Follies is, obviously one of the great scores in theater history - it's that Two Gentleman had a libretto by an honest to goodness writer, John Guare, who entertainingly adapted second-rate Shakespeare.
#42
Posted: 7/8/11 at 7:41pm
Here's another example of original stage directions:
In the middle of MIRROR MIRROR;
"(Then the music slows, the "Chorus girls" form a line across the stage, and, unmistakably, it's time to tap dance. It brgins. We hear the taps and, looking upstage in the dimness, we see all six memories-young Phyliss and young Sally and the rest-lined up and dancing. Their scanty costumes are made up of bits of mirrors, and they flash and sparkle as they move.
We watch as the memories upstage move in mirror-image to the Chorus girls down front. The tempo and excitement rise, the steps and turns grow harder, faster. Then the explosion comes as past and present mingle: the memories join the present downstage; Stella, mirrored by young Stella, light and slim, comes dancing on; the two tunes mesh and all the girls sing out at once)
(The number ends, the memories disappear, and we are left with seven breathless middle-aged ladies,)
In the middle of MIRROR MIRROR;
"(Then the music slows, the "Chorus girls" form a line across the stage, and, unmistakably, it's time to tap dance. It brgins. We hear the taps and, looking upstage in the dimness, we see all six memories-young Phyliss and young Sally and the rest-lined up and dancing. Their scanty costumes are made up of bits of mirrors, and they flash and sparkle as they move.
We watch as the memories upstage move in mirror-image to the Chorus girls down front. The tempo and excitement rise, the steps and turns grow harder, faster. Then the explosion comes as past and present mingle: the memories join the present downstage; Stella, mirrored by young Stella, light and slim, comes dancing on; the two tunes mesh and all the girls sing out at once)
(The number ends, the memories disappear, and we are left with seven breathless middle-aged ladies,)
#43
Posted: 7/8/11 at 7:54pm
One doesn't go to see Follies for the book.
True, but no one goes to any musical for the book.
True, but no one goes to any musical for the book.
#44
Posted: 7/8/11 at 8:09pm
I'm with PRS, I love the original book. I do think the Encores!/KC is superior to the Roundabout book, mainly because the ending is based on the original ending. Roundabout used that truly bizarre London ending. Certain lines are restored in the Encores!/KC book, but it is still severely truncated.
The one scene I think I prefer in the 'revised'/edited editions of the book, is the opening to act 2. I think Goldman streamlined it just fine in the edited editions. That scene's dialogue in the original book gets a little cheesy: "Sally wants another kiss, please!" "April Fools! I get you every time." lol.
Although, I do miss Buddy's "I ought to take her by the hair and drag her out of here."
The one scene I think I prefer in the 'revised'/edited editions of the book, is the opening to act 2. I think Goldman streamlined it just fine in the edited editions. That scene's dialogue in the original book gets a little cheesy: "Sally wants another kiss, please!" "April Fools! I get you every time." lol.
Although, I do miss Buddy's "I ought to take her by the hair and drag her out of here."
Updated On: 7/8/11 at 08:09 PM
#45
Posted: 7/8/11 at 8:15pm
See, I miss those lines, because that entire exchange juxtaposes Ben's realizing that Sally is just as crazy as ever and how he just wants to get away from her and Sally's thinking everything is hunky dory, as well as the fact that she's really beginning to lose track of what's the past and what's the present.
At this point, I just don't understand why the original book isn't used. It's not like the cuts that make up the Roundabout/Encores version make it a shorter evening or anything.
At this point, I just don't understand why the original book isn't used. It's not like the cuts that make up the Roundabout/Encores version make it a shorter evening or anything.
#46
Posted: 7/8/11 at 8:24pm
Hmm, those are good points. I never thought of those lines in that way. They always sounded cheesy to me on the soundboard recording. In the newer versions, Sally is less bat**** crazy. Bernadette plays act two extremely delusional, not as flat out crazy as other Sally's. She speaks in a quiet girlish voice, and it really worked for me. And for me, it seems like she has such a connection with the lines/lyrics about being happy and wanting to be happy.
#47
Posted: 7/9/11 at 11:43am
Houdyshell? How de hell can I miss this? Awesome, awesome and more awesome!
PEACE.
#48
Posted: 7/9/11 at 12:43pm
I saw Jayne as Madame Morrible in the first national tour "Wicked" last year in Dallas while Randy Danson was injured. She was terrific and has become one of my favorite Madame Morribles.
#49
Posted: 7/9/11 at 1:17pm
My problem with the way the DC production was staged has to do with the way the "old" FOLLIES girls are introduced. Each makes a "debut" through the theatre doors and everyone applauds. Five minutes later, they're coming down the stairs to "Beautiful Girls" and makiing yet ANOTHER 'Debut." And the audience applauds.
It's redundant and anti-climactic. It definitely left me scratching my head (all 4 times I saw it). I don't actually know how the original Broadway show was staged, but it's just, I don't know, awkward.
(P.S. Ljay, Have I mentioned that I'm back in your camp on where the intermission should be?
)
"Be on your guard! Jerks on the loose!"
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
~ Best12Bars
It's redundant and anti-climactic. It definitely left me scratching my head (all 4 times I saw it). I don't actually know how the original Broadway show was staged, but it's just, I don't know, awkward.
(P.S. Ljay, Have I mentioned that I'm back in your camp on where the intermission should be?
)
http://www.roches.com/television/ss83kod.html
**********
"If any relationship involves a flow chart, get out of it...FAST!"
~ Best12Bars
#50
Posted: 7/9/11 at 3:26pm
Here's how the opening was staged in the original production:
http://youtu.be/DcOamtViH1g
See?
It was all about the ghosts. The ghosts OWNED the space. The contemporary people were the aliens, invading it after so many years. None of the subsequent directors and choreographers have ever understood that dynamic--or known how to accomplish it.
The Prologue itself was breathtaking--and "Beautiful Girl" was the climax to the Prologue, not a separate (and redundant) number. It was the moment when the contemporary people took possession of the space.
(And, as Chapin's book details, Bennett did three different stagings of the Prologue before finding the final one.)
http://youtu.be/DcOamtViH1g
See?
It was all about the ghosts. The ghosts OWNED the space. The contemporary people were the aliens, invading it after so many years. None of the subsequent directors and choreographers have ever understood that dynamic--or known how to accomplish it.
The Prologue itself was breathtaking--and "Beautiful Girl" was the climax to the Prologue, not a separate (and redundant) number. It was the moment when the contemporary people took possession of the space.
(And, as Chapin's book details, Bennett did three different stagings of the Prologue before finding the final one.)
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