Jersey Boys.....They stopped the show and replaced JLY!!!!!- Page 4

[Phantom2]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 3:43pm

Excuse me?

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 3:50pm

Great comments from everyone.

The ending of this episode is yet to written. I am willing to wait it out, and see if my predictions are accurate.

If it becomes a large enough issue at the theater, the Producers won't care what has been said at BWW, they WILL take action. Producers usually don't allow emotional attachments to a star prevent them from recognizing the fact that someone is developing poor attendance patterns. About the time that it appears in the Post, The Daily News, or The Sun, there will be a big problem.

Hopefully, JLY will recover quickly. This is a win for everyone since he so obviously does a marvelous job with the role.

The thesis that deserves more development beyond this thread is the part played by the vocal demands of the role of Franki Valli. I would strenuously join the other voices who have stated that the vocal acrobatics required for the role may cause short term vocal illnesses lasting for months.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:02pm

"I would strenuously join the other voices who have stated that the vocal acrobatics required for the role may cause short term vocal illnesses lasting for months."

Get her!

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:02pm

Namo was being facetious.

And Chanticleer - in regards to your "predictions" - aren't they obvious. OF COURSE if the powers that be have an issue, they would do something about it. And that has nothing to do with message boards or anything other than simple business. It's hardly a "prediction".

As for anything appearing in the post - I doubt that would cause a "big problem" as you anticipate. As proven with the incorrect statements alread made in the post about JLY's back up singers. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong - but I believe that had less than zero affect on the box office.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:05pm

Something tells me Ruth and Teddy from Ohio are lining up for tickets to see a show about the Four Seasons anyway, not the guy who won the Tony.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:12pm

And that's the fact that gets lost in discussions like the one Chanticleer is trying to direct this thread into having, bwaysinger.

It's live theater. The producers are putting on a show. The show goes on, sometimes with, sometimes without cast members who may or may not be award winners.

Unless some sort of star's name appears above the title of the show, the ticket buyer is SOL if that person can/can't/will/won't/does or doesn't appear when they go to see it. Yes, it's a shame. But what you have when you buy a ticket is the promise that the show will go on.

If you're compeltely wrapped up in the cult of personality of the stars, sometimes you'll be disappointed. But grown-ups learn to manage and live with anxiety and disappointment. It's the way life is.

And that's showbiz.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:17pm

The prediction that you so readily sneered at is that JLY might not ever return to playing eight shows per week. There is another prediction: no actor is going to survive long in this role playing eight shows a week. Who knows, these are only educated guesses.

bwaysinger: you seem to know a lot about good vocal health and vocal training. You obviously don't know a lot about Ohio since being from Ohio and trying to get to see JLY is the catlyst for this entire debate.

Well, The Post, The Sun, and The Daily News have some influence, and certainly more influence than I ever could. The producers certainly don't want the story played out in the media. Witness the hysterics on this Board who make broad leaps, adding their own meanings to any suggestion on this topic. We must defend our precious stars!

Any statements apart from gushing tributes professing undying affection for a particular performer are met with harrassment, innuendo, infintile name calling, and condescension.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:18pm

But I pointed out a moment ago that actors have quite a high allotment of sick days.
I can't even remember what it is and I'm not sure if it's higher for the Broadway contract, but I had a crapload of eligible sick days for both children's theatre and touring productions. Heck, my stints with Guest Artists give you a chance to miss and those usually rack up 5 performances or so!

I've rarely been disappointed by an understudy. I have gone to see a show specifically for a performer (and subsequently been disappointed when said performer was out) but, with few exceptions, it's hardly driving ticket sales these days unless it's a one-performer show.

ETA: oh, and I've seen his obvious bias against JLY, which he seems to be backpedaling on now. Though, to be fair, I do have to agree with Chanticleer and wonder when we'll see Reidel gleefully arguing his points in the Post. After all, he was pouncing on Donna Murphy and Bernadette before they even racked up a week's work of missed shows.
Updated On: 8/6/06 at 04:18 PM

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:20pm

Namo: it's live theater we're talking about?

Oh, thanks for the help, I didn't know that. You're thinking is so profound, and really helpful.

Thank you oh great Namo. Thanks for the enlightening and original thoughts.

LOL.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:20pm

Chanti, Just so you know, oh molder of young minds, the use of the word "hysteric" in this context has its roots in misogyny.

Second, how can you say "The Post, The Sun, and The Daily News have some influence, and certainly more influence than I ever could"? Why, your blaaaaaaahhhhhhg gets THOUSANDS of hits per day. I understand all the insiders in Tinsel Town and NYC stop there first every morning.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:23pm

""Namo"":

Once again, your plain-spoken intellecutal prowess stops the show! Don't forget to remind us that we are talking about live theater.

The Manahatta hysteric strikes again.......

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:28pm

"The Manahatta hysteric"?

What language are you writing? Perhaps there's a translation program you could link to that would be helpful.

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:30pm

"The prediction that you so readily sneered at is that JLY might not ever return to playing eight shows per week. There is another prediction: no actor is going to survive long in this role playing eight shows a week. Who knows, these are only educated guesses.

But Chanticleer - it's contracted he doesn't have to do 8 performances a week. It's a non issue.

Well, The Post, The Sun, and The Daily News have some influence, and certainly more influence than I ever could. The producers certainly don't want the story played out in the media. Witness the hysterics on this Board who make broad leaps, adding their own meanings to any suggestion on this topic. We must defend our precious stars!

Hello pot, this is kettle. You might think your comments are merely topics of conversation - but you are asserting your negativity. Impartial, you are not as you have clearly demonstrated time and time again. And again - this story and similar ones HAVE played out in the media. Gypsy didn't close because Bernadette was out. Neither did Wonderful Town. And they WERE above the title.

No producer wants their show in the press for negative reasons (clearly - hardly a prediction there). But missing performances is not a scandal. Hell - even negative reviews of some shows can't keep millions of people away.

It just seems you're trying to create drama, where there simply isn't one. You don't like the fact that you missed JLY's performance. It's time to get past that :)

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:32pm

Facts are so often referred to as bias when the respondent has no foundation for his comments.

There is no bias. JLY sounds great on the CD, sounded great at the Tony Awards, and on the Today Show. I have no doubt that he plays a wonderful show.

Shake off that Manhattan attitude! People of intelligence can develop new thought patterns that don't fit your tired and synthetic molds.

Since you all can't seem to get your brain wrapped around the central point of the debate, you resort to stock methods of responding to the concerns. "he is biased against JLY:" WRONG!

"He is from Ohio they don't come to see Tony Award Winners:" arrogant and WRONG.

"The Press can't CRUSH ticket sales:" WRONG.

We don't have to backpeddle. We will leave that to the excuse makers who have to remind us on a regular basis that we are talking about live theater. Now, there is a thought provoking statement for the day. LOL.
Updated On: 8/6/06 at 04:32 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:38pm

LOL . We?

Now you're resorting to referring to yourself in the 3rd person.

You're mistaking our comments as attitude. Just because I and others don't agree doesn't mean we have attitude.

As for you having no bias, that's clearly a falicy. Your word choices clearly indicate one whether you realize it or not. And the fact that any thread about JLY, Michael Longoria or the JB is immediately posted upon by yourself in an effort to raise this debate over and over indicates that perhaps you are. If you weren't, wouldn't one thread be enough? Wouldn't having the satisfaction of posting on your website be enough? Nah.. you're pushing a personal agenda. And that's fine. But let's not kid ourselves.

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:40pm

By the way, who are you quoting regarding "The Press can't CRUSH ticket sales"

I thought to use quotes you'd have to actually be using someone else's comments. No one said anything close to that sentence.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:50pm

Words can be interpreted in different ways. If my words convey bias, what is the precise charge of bias?

The agenda: an informed public.

Also for Namo: In a map of 1610 the name “Manahatta” appears on both sides of the lower river in reference to what is now known as Manhattan Island.
Updated On: 8/6/06 at 04:50 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:53pm

Fact: You've been on the board for over a year

Fact: In that time, you've posted appx 260 times

Fact: Of those 260 posts, 80 of them have been about or in relation to JLY missing performances. That's roughly one out of every 3 posts you've made in a year. And clearly since this is a more recent issue, that's a higher percentage of your postings in the past 30 days.

The agenda: Yours, not the truth.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:58pm

Craig: is that a polite way of saying shut up?

I still don't get the charge of bias.

The bias is that I have posted at lot about JLY missing shows? That fact, on its' own shows bias? What bias?

A lot of posting on one topic is therefore bias?

[SCBWannabe]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 4:59pm

Chanti-You use "we" so often you must have a whole cult following you. You keep speaking of an informed public. There are no ways to find out if someone is out sick until the day you get to the theater. Should JLY call a paper every time he is going to be out sick? Will they post special additions just for JLY news? Your personal attacks are getting old. It seems you have an agenda and you won't let it die. You are clearly in the minority. Don't demean fans who are passionate about a certain performer. Stop being a bitter queen. What happened to the guy I talked to on PM. You seemed like a decent guy. But your constant attacks and one-sided rants are old. I think Craig has hit every nail on the head in a calm, precise tone. It is more than I would have done. Call me immature, call me a JLY junkie, call me whatever you want. But you seem to be fighting a losing battle, and that is because it has no basis in reality, especially where John is concerned.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 5:02pm

The guy who talked to you on PM is right here.

Please state the "personal attacks."

There are others on the board who have expressed agreement with me. Do you mean I am in the minority of people posting today?

Thanks. There's no bitterness at all. LOL. Just having a good time discussing a major issue of Broadway today.

[Craig]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 5:06pm

My only comment is that if this is what you consider a major issue, then you are clearly stepping up on the wrong soapbox LOL

Updated On: 8/6/06 at 05:06 PM

[SCBWannabe]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 5:08pm

No one is throwing JLY under a bus. That is all you. You seem to think there is a big conspiracy going on to fool the ticket buying public. It is just ludicrous.

I would really love to get to the bottom of why you seem so hell bent on tarnishing JLY's name. Sure you occasionally throw in a compliment about him, but you are basically saying his attendance is due to circumstances in his control.

I really can't argue with you any more on this point. We will never agree. I feel like we are going to read about you and your followers drinking Kool-Aid and committing a mass suicide.

[Chanticleer148]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 5:17pm

Ok. Pick on me for the words. Tony -Award winning performers not performing in their shows is not a major issue. I stand corrected by the experts.

I realize that I am the most inarticulate writer on this board, and if I could simply express myself in the stellar fashion of all those who have joined in on this bashing bandwagon, I could say anything irresponsible, incredible, or irrational that I wanted to say-without so much as a breath of criticism.

I apologize for raising an illegitimate concern. I'll try harder to study at the feet of all those who know the real issues that make Broadway tick.

Stupid 'ol me. I thought someone might have more than a fifty- fifty chance of seeing the Tony Award winners play their roles. That's just how dumb we are in Ohio.

Oh, and not to take anything away from other performers because we all know that whoever may play the role, the show will still be successful. After all, shows don't ride on individual performers any more.
Updated On: 8/6/06 at 05:17 PM

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 8/6/06 at 5:19pm

Well, if you weren't using hyperbole such as
Stupid 'ol me. I thought someone might have more than a fifty fifty chance of seeing the Tony Award winners play their roles. That's just how dumb we are in Ohio.

Then it might not be so hard to discredit you as I'm pretty sure JLY HAS made it to more than 50% of his shows. Therefore, your hypothesis is already proved wrong.