Jesus Christ Superstar - OBC

[Sondheimtime]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 1:03pm

Aside from one recording being a Highlights and the other a full recording, what is the difference between the 1971 - Ben Vereen recording and the 1972 ? Both are the original production.

Updated On: 3/31/16 at 01:03 PM

[Adair Haywind]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:25pm

Which full recording of the Original Broadway Cast are you referring to? I was under the impression that the highlights recording was the only existing recording for the OBC.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:29pm

It is.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:35pm

I believe thew 1972 recording you may eb talking about may be the Original London Cast.

There's the 1970 concept, the 1971 OBC highlights and 1972 OLC highlights.

[Sondheimtime]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:39pm

Thank you.

I know the highlights 1971 is the OBC but the "other" album I was referring to, also, has Yvonne Elliman with Murray Head not Ben Vereen.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:43pm

That definitely sounds like the original concept album!

[Sondheimtime]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 2:48pm

Again, thanks! Oddly enough, no website that I sought out for additional info actually clarifies that! 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 3:06pm

No problem! The concept is one of my favourite albums ever, I do wish the OBC was complete.

[Sondheimtime]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 3:59pm

Then I will have to purchase the concept.

 

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 4:02pm

Very odd that they'd credit the concept to 1972.  BTW, if you know the show you may not think it's complete--Could We Start Again Please (along with a couple of other brief passages) were added for Broadway.

The last remaster of the concept (on Decca I think?) sounds stupendous--one of the best remasters I've heard.  I'd really recommend making sure that's the one you get.

I did finally recently get the OBC and, aside from being highlights, I like it a lot--dunno why it took me so long to get.

[Sondheimtime]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 4:10pm

Appreciate that input. Thank you -- the date threw me off!!

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 4:54pm

I agree wholeheartedly re: the Decca remaster. Sad that they abandoned their cast album reissuing as their remasters are some of the best sounding and they still have a huge back catalogue unremastered  or even unissued on CD period.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 9:33pm

EricMontreal22 said: "I did finally recently get the OBC and, aside from being highlights, I like it a lot--dunno why it took me so long to get."

I like it, too. It makes clear why there was so much buzz about Ben Vereen's performance (his energy really shines through on the recording, brief though it is), and I like the jazzy inflections in the orchestration, no doubt the work of Hershy Kay*.

 

* True story, as recounted in Tim Rice's autobio (quote): "Andrew did have to put up with a Broadway arranger being dragged in to do what everyone assumed Andrew wouldn't know how to do (i.e., the orchestrations). As this had been one of the most outstanding features of the album, it seemed a strange decision and Andrew was not best pleased. The arranging cove in question, Hershy Kay, was a man with a distinguished Broadway track record, precisely what this score did not need, but after several close encounters of the explosive kind, more or less reproduced Andrew's work note for note, with any alterations simply taking into account the fact that the orchestral resources available in the Mark Hellinger pit were smaller than those on the LP. I think in the end Andrew even got the credit on the posters for the orchestrations, as was only right and proper. My only other memory of Hershy is that he was so tiny that we more than once put our feet into it by talking about him without realizing he was lurking behind a speaker. I am not trying to denigrate a much-respected Broadway veteran, but he was the wrong bloke in the wrong job."

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 9:43pm

Agree with Mr. Nowack. Decca has done some phenomenal remastering...and their catalog has so many more possibilities!!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 9:59pm

Did Tim Rice have any comment about Kay's much more substantial (it seems to me) work on Evita?

 

It IS great to hear Ben Vereen.  To be honest, for some reason I never thought I'd like him as Judas.  I was wrong.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 3/31/16 at 10:30pm

The OBC is fantastic - I would say definitive if it was complete. The cast is phenomenal. And those orchestrations are incredible. The build in "Everything's Allright" is thrilling - and I bet Hershy did that. The concept orchestrations (like the original in Evita) are so... Bland.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/1/16 at 10:33pm

I wouldn't say bland--but, as you say, they lack any build.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 4/2/16 at 10:07am

Bland? Lack build? I shouldn't waste my time trying to correct what are clearly matters of opinion, especially as I lack the energy today to put up with the vitriol this forum can occasionally generate, but I feel I must protest.

It's true the musical direction and the production of the original album are "rough," but that is one of the things that imbues the concept album with an eternal freshness and energy. The orchestrations by ALW are anything but flat -- any potential perceived "flatness" is due to the musical direction. One has only to compare moments such as Jesus' "That's what you say / You say that I am" in comparison to other recordings to see how glorious it is (the strings are amazing here on the original album).

Of course, different musical directors have differing interpretations, hence why each album is different, and also why owning different versions is a good thing. Compared to the original album, most other recordings had the luxury of experience and time (although the OBC is an odd one and the one I find has less variation than most). And at any rate, most albums use the orchestrations which were created by ALW in the first place, or if not use ones which are very similar, so I'd say orchestration is not really an issue.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 4/2/16 at 10:11am

EricMontreal22 said: "Did Tim Rice have any comment about Kay's much more substantial (it seems to me) work on Evita?"

Forgot to answer this one! As far as I recall, he merely mentions something along the lines of "that guy was brought in again" and that's about it.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 4/2/16 at 11:23am

That's just my opinion. Give me the OBC any day - "This Jesus Must Die", "I Only Want to Say", "Trial Before Pilate", and "Superstar" are far more thrilling to me on that recording than the Concept album. And the orchestrations are bland - in my opinion. I understand it's supposed to be "raw" but give me Ben Vereen and Jeff Fenholt over the concept stars.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 4/3/16 at 12:36am

To each their own. Ben Vereen has his own charm (I can see a lot of where Carl Anderson picked up some licks -- or maybe Ben from him, as Carl did one of the three authorized pre-Broadway concert tours), but I find Fenholt to be a reedy, thin-voiced, pale imitation of Ian Gillan's much fuller sound.

Updated On: 4/3/16 at 12:36 AM

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 4/3/16 at 3:15am

Currently relistening to the OBC and it does have some really fascinating orchestral additions from the concept album that I never paid attention to before. Never knew Kay helped out with the arrangements and did EVITA as well.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/3/16 at 2:38pm

As far as the original concept album goes it's essential because it provided the blueprint for the other excellent versions of the score. My first exposure to JCS was via the movie, so the soundtrack was the first recording I owned and it will always have a special place in my heart. I also prefer the OBC over the original concept album, but each version has something unique to offer. I always love to listen, compare and appreciate each one.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/3/16 at 2:47pm

 

Ben Vereen (Judas), Jeff Fenholt (Jesus). Jesus Christ Superstar - Original Broadway Cast. 1971.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 4/3/16 at 5:03pm

CarlosAlberto said: "As far as the original concept album goes it's essential because it provided the blueprint for the other excellent versions of the score. My first exposure to JCS was via the movie, so the soundtrack was the first recording I owned and it will always have a special place in my heart. I also prefer the OBC over the original concept album, but each version has something unique to offer. I always love to listen, compare and appreciate each one."

The movie soundtrack is, barring a couple of tunes and some copy-pasting of bars here and there, largely the same rhythm tracks as the concept album with new vocals and an overlay of non-rock instruments conducted by Andre Previn. It's not altogether different, so in a way, you still got the basics.