Kickstarter for Soul Doctor - a new musical- Page 2

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 5:54pm

Apologies for mangling your username, g.d.e.l.g.i. - all those "markers" are what make your name such a pain. Here's my point: if you think Soul Doctor's way raising money is of questionable legality, I'd suggest you take it up with kickstarter or the Attorney General.

But presumably you didn't do that when you were trolling (by your own admission) by attacking Davenport and his version of Godspell and his means of raising money, back when you were gvendo.

To me this just seems more of the same trollery. Your first post in this thread was a question that you should have already known the answer to, if you looked at the link. They are very upfront about what someone who donates gets for their money, and what they are raising their money for. I'd just like for you to be as upfront about your agenda.

In short - which none of us seem to be able to manage today - if this worries you so, why go off on a rampage on a message board (again) when you can just drop a dime on them?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 6:10pm

The listed entity on the Kickstarter listing is "andersonenvy" which is linked to a website that makes no mention of this show. The profile of andersonenvy on kickstarter has no information on who or what that is, but includes information on Danny Wise "the writer and current director of Soul Doctor, originally a rosh yeshiva, he has spent his professional career as a Broadway producer. He knew the Carlebach family since his childhood and hopes to spread the story and music of Shlomo Carlebach to a wider audience." It is also noteworthy that it says he has spent his professional career as a Broadway producer,his name does not appear anywhere on either IBDB or Playbill's Vault.

Although there is nothing manifestly illegal about this, it is, at a minimum, very shady. When one invests, there are a whole host of legal protections and anti-fraud provisions that apply to protect the investor. Here there are none, although someone seeking "donations" under false pretenses is certainly breaking the law. Incidentally, Kickstarter very carefully takes itself out of the equation: they tell you to do your own due diligence because they have not done any. So it is caveat emptor, except that the emptor here is not doing anything except emptying their pockets.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 6:10pm

@ghost: People who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it. My repeated posts on how crowd funding does not work may be viewed as trolling by some, but I recall learning from a teacher in the fifth grade that if you wanted somebody to learn something important, you repeated it as much as three times, if not more, until it sunk into a person's head.*

That's all I'm doing. Rather than remind them on a small-scale project that doesn't look like it will harm anyone's pocket, however, I'm just going after the shadier examples.

* Of course, he also favored that "listening to classical music while you work on class assignments" crap...

Updated On: 7/22/12 at 06:10 PM

[temms]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 6:35pm

Although there is nothing manifestly illegal about this, it is, at a minimum, very shady. When one invests, there are a whole host of legal protections and anti-fraud provisions that apply to protect the investor.

Precisely. And the fact that they're trying to skirt this suggests that they have tried and failed to raise money the traditional way. Or, they are unfamiliar with or resentful of the traditional ways and want to just do it their way. I've certainly met more than one producer like that, and none of them have had much success though they can certainly talk big.

Most specifically, the guidelines under which Broadway shows are capitalized have specific requirements for who is allowed to invest. You can only take money from "Accredited Investors", which means an individual with at least a $1M net worth or who has made a salary of at least $200K for the last two years and can reasonably expect to make the same amount this year.

You are allowed up to 35 exceptions to that rule - meaning, you can take money from an unlimited number of millionaires, but you can also use up to 35 "sophisticated" non-millionaires. To be considered "sophisticated", you have to prove that you have the knowledge and experience to accurately judge the merits of the investment. A college degree, previous investment experience, etc.

The reason this is in place is that prior to these rules, every entity that wanted to raise money from the public needed to receive approval from the SEC, which is an expensive and time-consuming process. Reforms were made in the '70s, one of which was "Regulation D" corporations. Under Regulation D, you don't need SEC approval, you just need to file the necessary paperwork but it doesn't get reviewed.

So in order to protect consumers, you either have to limit the amount of money you raise, or you limit the people you can solicit. Rule 506, which is the version of Regulation D most Broadway productions use, says you can raise as much as you want (so long as you file the paperwork) but you can only raise it from people who can afford to lose it and are experienced enough to make a good judgment.

In addition to filing the federal paperwork, you also have to file state paperwork from every state in which you raise money and follow the state guidelines. They call these "Blue Sky laws", and are there to protect shysters from fleecing the poor and uneducated with frivolous "investment opportunities" that are purely speculative.

So the tradeoff is that you don't have a huge Federal hurdle to clear when you want to raise money, but the pool of people you can go to is limited. This is why Ken Davenport had to structure things very differently to do "Godspell", and why such a plan isn't used all the time. I imagine he had to do a full SEC review in order to be legally cleared, which as I said takes a bit of time and money.

To try and skirt all that by asking for Kickstarter donations and just taking the money..........

(Jeez, that one was even longer. Damn heat wave, chaining me to the internet.)

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 7:11pm

Temms, it's not that hot out there today so you have no excuse.

Having gone back again and looked at the Kickstarter material, I suspect that this is not a producer's undertaking at all, but that andersonenvy is likely just the alter ego of the writer, who is looking for money to support his continued work developing this show. There is nothing wrong with that, and had it been presented as that, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye. But writers, especially inexperienced ones, are not always good at the business or legal side of things, and some also have a penchant for making things sound more elaborate than they are. There's an object lesson in all this for such folks.

[bk]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 9:48pm

You will note, of course, the one poster who joined the board, posted once, and will never be back. I think that says all you need to know about this "endeavor."

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 10:34pm

I think its odd that the kickstarter states its booked NYTW and (a proposed) Spring 2013 B'way debut -- but is looking for 50,000 to keep going?

Sounds like "personal costs" to me. (Although I admit, I have no idea how NYTW works, I've always imagined they actually produce the works that appear under their name -- not just rented out their space.)

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/22/12 at 11:11pm

It's pretty obvious that much of what's said is either false or a gross exaggeration of the truth. NYTW would rent out the theatre if they had an appropriate empty period in their calendar, but would unquestionably require (as do other theatres) the renter to expressly state in all materials that it is not a NYTW production. However, even more likely in this fairy tale, is that, at most, they have rented the 4th Street Theatre from NYTW for this production.

[temms]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 12:00am

They are in fact in the main space (I checked the website), but it also very clearly states on the NYTW homepage that it is a Guest Production and that, quote, "SOUL DOCTOR is not part of the NYTW 2011-2012 Season".

[PlayItAgain]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 6:09am

So i wrote this to the guy running the kickstarter:

"You do realize NYTW never staged Book of Mormon and that its Peter and The STARCATCHER, right? Also you realize it is misleading to suggest that NYTW is producing this show as you folks are only renting out the space?"

His response:
"Hello

My name is Ken. I set up this Kickstarter on behalf of the Soul Doctor production, and just copy/pasted text sent to me.

Any inquiries please send to the production, for changes,

Ken"

I responded:

"Not my responsibility. With errors like that you will absolutely not hit your funding goal. Take some responsibility Ken and follow up on this with the production or they are going to be in major trouble...."


Also another deceitful little red flag is their promo video from last September states that Indie.Arie is involved with the show playing the main female part, she has never been attached to or apart of any production of this show.

Updated On: 7/23/12 at 06:09 AM

[karmachameleon2]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 7:04am

I'm not involved.

I'll admit, I did find this Kickstarter before I found BroadwayWorld, but I just wanted to see some experienced input on it. I actually do have an interest in theatre, though. If I was part of it, I would've let you guys know. Hell, I'm only 14.

Sorry if I misled anyone.

[binau]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 7:22am

I am proud to be the sole ('soul?') producer of SOUL DOCTOR at the moment. May my sizeable donation of $1 bring this life-changing theatre experience to the Broadway stage. Will I be the first BWW user to win a Tony Award for best musical? Hopefully my show is also considered for the Pulitzer Prize. It's a risky investment, but necessary to move Broadway into the 21st century. We have suffered with trash like NEXT TO NORMAL, GREY GARDENS and CAROLINE, OR CHANGE for too long.

Updated On: 7/23/12 at 07:22 AM

[bk]

Posted: 7/23/12 at 4:33pm

Fourteen? I'm done here. :)

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 5/30/13 at 8:03am

Interesting that since this thread originally happened several huge projects have now been funded by Kickstarter and nobody has called into question their legality (I certainly haven't seen anyone attacking the Veronica Mars movie for being "shady" by raising a much larger amount of money through them).

Updated On: 5/30/13 at 08:03 AM

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 5/30/13 at 8:28am

People will learn soon enough when it gets too big for its britches. I'm just waiting for the house of cards to collapse. Put another way: no one likes an annoying reminder.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 5/30/13 at 9:31am

"Interesting that since this thread originally happened several huge projects have now been funded by Kickstarter and nobody has called into question their legality (I certainly haven't seen anyone attacking the Veronica Mars movie for being "shady" by raising a much larger amount of money through them). "

bk attacked the Now. Here. This. kickstarter for their cd some bizarre reason, saying that a recording shouldn't cost as much as they were asking for, despite the fact that the majority of the donations were roughly the cost of the cd, which was exactly what most of the donors received for their dollars. What, exactly, was his problem, then? That they spent a little more time to make a better product? That the people involved got paid a little more?

"Put another way: no one likes an annoying reminder."

Says the former self-admitted troll with the new name.

For the record, I don't have a horse in this race. I've seen a very early version of this show. Unless major changes were made, it won't last long.






Now. Here. This. kickstarter Updated On: 5/30/13 at 09:31 AM

[corkystclair2]

Posted: 5/30/13 at 3:12pm

SERIOUSLY???

The show could only raise $6?

That's pretty embarrassing...

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 5/30/13 at 3:22pm

Obviously they raised more money somehow if they're opening on Broadway this summer.