Marshall's Choreography for the Chicago Movie..- Page 2

[bjivie2]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:09pm

Yes, it may not be as theatrical as Reinking's, but I think Marshall did a great job of adding the film element to the mix with some thrilling combinations of good shots and choreography.

[ShuQ]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:14pm

I agree. Never for a moment have I thought about the choreography as weak or felt that it should have been more Fosse. I don't feel it was at all necessary to include Fosse, obviously they didn't either. I think Bob Fosse is a legend...but this wasn't Bob Fosse's Chicago...it was Marshall's.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:22pm

I can't sit here and say I think Marshall's choreography is bad.

It's not. But numbers like ROXIE are really weak.

Funny that the Chicago movie was so accepted without Fosse. But the current Charity revival is not well accepted without Fosse.

I do really like Marshall's direction. and I like how they expanded on the story, how we actually find out how Velma gets out of jail etc.

My biggest problem with the movie is not the choreo. It's the cut of MY OWN BEST FRIEND and ME AND MY BABY, which were originally written in the script. Both would've worked with the concept of in Roxie's head. MAMB gets underscored though. Updated On: 9/23/05 at 07:22 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:26pm

"Funny that the Chicago movie was so accepted without Fosse. But the current Charity revival is not well accepted without Fosse. "

Hmm... Possibly because Sweet Charity is also playing on a Broadway stage, and so they're "playing on the same turf" as Fosse's original production. There's a direct comparison and competition in audiences eyes. The revival loses.

The movie of Chicago is a different medium, as well as interpretation, playing to a much larger and different audience.

Updated On: 9/23/05 at 07:26 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:28pm

You are allowed to say you don't like Marshall's choreography.

Issue has been taken with your comments that Fosse was not given an homage in the film.

I have not seen the revival of SC, but I can only guess that the choreography/direction, etc. is not as strong as Fosse's based on what people have said about the production. Thus, it's not that it isn't doing well without Fosse--it's not doing well without a clear, strong vision.

Updated On: 9/23/05 at 07:28 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:30pm

Where is Wonderboy? I want to know what he has to say.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:51pm

i gotta say the only bit of fosse i truly missed was velma's entrance, i kept waiting for her to hit the "velma pose" coming up the elevator

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 8:46pm

Well, I've watched the whole film with the director's commentary and Marshall says he wanted to stay away from Fosse as far as possible because Fosse was such a genius that he didn't want to emulate him badly. I think he created his own thing and did a pretty fine job. I love the "All That Jazz" choreography, specially how it is intertwined with Roxie's escapade. I love Marshall's concept on "The Cell Block Tango" specially because it is so different from the show, it creates a new atmosphere. Don't get me wrong,I looooove Reinking's choreography and I don't think Marshall should have touched "The Hot Honey Rag" but I like that he created a new point of view for the movie through his choreography.

[bjivie2]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 9:00pm

I have to be honest, I didn't miss Fosse's version of Hot Honey Rag that much. I realized it was different, but it didn't make that much of a difference to me.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 9:11pm

I find it VERY funny Marshall didn't want to emulate any of Fosse's choreo. But he copied many of Fosse's ideas from the original, directional wise.

I don't know, I think I like Kathleen better choreography wise than Rob. She really thrilled me with her WONDERFUL TOWN choreography. She also snatched the Tony for that.

[bjivie2]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 9:17pm

I just remember watching the Tonys going, "Kathleen Marshell won a Tony for THAT?"

Fosse is much more associated with his choreography style than his directing choices.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 9:48pm

Well Kathleen deserved that Tony over Cilento for Wicked, so thankfully she got it.

Her BALLET AT VILLAGE VORTEX, SWING, CONGA, and CHRISTOPHER STREET were simply stunning.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 11:00pm

I don't know, I think I like Kathleen better choreography wise than Rob.

That maybe true, but Rob is much better in film directing that Kathleen is. I know it's a bit unfair to judge her from the one movie she did, but boy did the ABC version of The Music Man underwhelm.

Anyway, listening to Forbidden Broadway, they seem very harsh on the Chicago revival. I know it's their job to do parodies and poke fun of shows, but seemed to really not like the revival or Reinking's choreography.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 11:07pm

GOD, if we're gonna talk about Kathleen Marshall deserving the Tony over Cilento's choreograpy(could we call it that?) for Wicked. Getting back on topic, I found Rob Marshall's choreography innovating but I do see where you're coming from ljay88, maybe he should've directed and let Reinking choreograph. I simply adore this movie, but I kind of believe that if Chicago was to be seen and remembered by future generations it should've had Fosse's stamp like the revival. Still, I like Marshall's choreography, how come he's never won a Tony?

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 11:36pm

Well the whole point of FB is to make fun of shows, as we know. So it should be taken lightly what they have to say.

Ann won a slew of awards for her choreography. And the revival won 6 Tonys, 5 Drama Desk Awards, 5 Outer Critic Circle Awards, 2 Oliver Awards, 1 Grammy, and the list continues. It is also the most successful revival of ALL TIME. And is in the top 10 of longest running shows of all time.

Chicago is an amazing experience on stage. Though I enjoy the movie, nothing can top the experience I have when I visit the revival on Broadway.
Updated On: 9/23/05 at 11:36 PM

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 11:45pm

And the revival won 6 Tonys, 5 Drama Desk Awards, 5 Outer Critic Circle Awards, 2 Oliver Awards, 1 Grammy, and the list continues. It is also the most successful revival of ALL TIME. And is in the top 10 of longest running shows of all time.

True, and the Chicago movie has won a lot of awards too. That doesn't stop you from criticizing it.

[Sant]

Posted: 9/24/05 at 5:32am

When I saw the movie the first time I was surprised how much the Marshall choreography reminded me of the Reinking's choreography! I thought the movie had a lame, watered-down choreography of the stage version! Seemed to me that Marshall wanted to do a choreography totally his own but eventually didn't dare to venture too far. ATJ was very different, but I CAN'T DO... reminded me SO MUCH of the stage version. And CELL BLOCK TANGO had a lot of same elements that the stage version has. And HOT HONEY RAG... well it was like watching the stage version on screen.

I was a little disappointed with the movie choreography.

But that's just me.

[WonderBoy]

Posted: 9/24/05 at 6:11pm

Never fear WonderBoy is here!

Okay, here we go...

Yes, Gwen had been after the rights to Roxie Hart for a long time. Fosse felt obligated to give her another show and he went after the rights as soon as the author died and go them for Gwen. I believe he "gave" it to her for her birthday, if I'm not mistaken.

There is actually A LOT of Fosse in the CHICAGO film. Not just in staging and setting but in the choreography. No, it's not the 'signature' Fosse movement per se that is so recognizable but many other moves are in there. Remember, the first 'signature' Fosse number was "Steam Heat" but he choreographed many other numbers in other shows that weren't filled with that 'signature' Fosse movement until we get to SWEET CHARITY. His movement was a lot more than knocked knees, hip thrusts, hat work and wrist movements. So, as some one who has experienced and danced his 'other' style/works I for one can say that I do see some Fosse or at least a tribute to him in his movement.

Let's be honest here. I love the woman, she's been very good to me and I'll deny that I ever wrote this if she see's it but Annie doing non-Fosse choreography isn't exactly brilliant by any means. The CHICAGO revival is all Fosse choreography that is just taken apart and moved around. There is also a lot of the original choreography in there as well. It's kinda like if I were to use parts of "Turkey Lurkey Time", "Steppin' To The Bad Side", "Chapter 54, Number 1909" and "Who's That Woman?" and choreograph the opening of ACL and call it "Choreographed in the style of Michael Bennett." Make sense?

Now, the film didn't exactly blow me away the first couple times I watched it. The film is filmed as Fosse would have filmed it were he alive today I think. I had issues with some casting especially with RZ. I loved, loved, loved what Marshall did with "Cell Block Tango"! It was SO Fosse it wasn't even funny. Well, Hollywood Fosse that is. I found the "Hot Honey Rag" to be painful to sit through. The tempo was too slow and the movement was boring. I also think that Marshall nailed "All That Jazz" on the head! As much as I longed for the revival choreography in the film, I got over it about the third time I watched it because I could begin to accept it for what it was.

Yes, there are many things that I don't like about the film and there are a few things that I really love. I especially love that it has revived the movie musical!

I really think that Marshall would've made Fosse and Gwen proud with his adaptation for film. I personally wish Fosse's film version would've come to fruition years ago when Fosse originally wanted Bette for Roxie and Liza for Velma before he went after Madonna for the role.

I personally find Rob's choreography far stronger than Kathleen's.

Hope I helped and covered most of it. Whew!




(PS: ljay889, I don't know why I thought you called her Annie. Sorry babe! )

Updated On: 9/26/05 at 06:11 PM

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 9/24/05 at 6:23pm

Marshall was nominated for Kiss of the Spiderwoman but lost I believe to The Who's Tommy which was choreographed ironically (in terms of this thread) by Wayne Cilento.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 9/24/05 at 7:35pm

Never seen "The Who's Tommy" but if the choreography was as mediocre as Cilento's choreography on "Aida" and "Wicked" then it means the Tony people definitely hate Rob Marshall.
Rob Marshall said he's friends with Ann Reinking, so I wonder why he didn't let her choreograph the movie, was Marshall's choreographer ego involved in this decision?

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/25/05 at 12:01am

Interesting points.

But Wonder, where did I call her Annie? I just checked all most posts, because I usually ALWAYS call her Ann.

Maybe you are referring to Brooke Shields calling her Annie in her Broadway.com video? But Brooke had her own personal session with Ann to prepare for Roxie, So I think she can call her Annie.

Anyway, I still think the ROXIE number in the movie is a complete waste, but I'm glad they kept the monologue. ALL I CARE ABOUT which I didn't mention, I think is pretty good. I like the girls behind the bars for the WE WANT BILLY introduction. BOTH REACHED FOR THE GUN is alright, I like it better with female reporters, like on stage. And there is nothing like a Billy holding a G for 30 seconds, which Gere couldn't do.

And I would still like to see Madonna as Velma. She was signed and everything, and the producers told her she would probally get the Oscar for the role - ironically Zeta Jones won the Oscar for Velma.

Updated On: 9/25/05 at 12:01 AM

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 9/25/05 at 3:25am

The movie version of Chicago is NOT a broadway musical. It's a hollywood musical... and in a hollywood musical, the choreography of the camera is often much more important than the choreography of the dances... having fabulous dances filmed flatly would be boring... this is something Fosse was intimately aquainted with... as demonstrated famously in Cabaret (It has been noted by people much more intelligent then me that the choreography in Cabaret is NOT all that spectacular on it's own terms...however coupled with framing and camera placement the choreography shines)... second... there are many nods to the original Chicago... the bars used in the Cell Block Tango, the stipping in All I Care About, and Chita Rivera all come from the original production... in this way Rob Marshall rather ingeniously nods to Fosse without ever "quoting" the Fosse style... which probably have caused you (and others) to complain even louder... lastly... and this is rather prissy... but there is nothing ironic about Catherine Zeta Jones winning an oscar for the role Madonna was told she could win an oscar for... in fact that's sort of the opposite of irony actually... all it is really... is unfortunate for Ms. Ritchie... perhaps she'll star in a film version of Redhead choreographed by Kathleen Marshall using all of Fosse's original choreography... and then she'll win her ironic oscar.

kc

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/25/05 at 11:09am

A film version of Redhead? We'll be lucky if we ever see that on Broadway again.

But thank you for the long run on sentence.