Marshall's Choreography for the Chicago Movie..

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:23pm

I know this may seem like beating a dead horse over the head.. But wanted to discuss this. This is NOT a Chicago Revival VS Movie thread. It's about the choreography.

Today I rewatched the Chicago movie, the whole movie. Something I haven't done in a while. And this time I made sure I paid close attention to the choreography.

I saw practically NO Fosse. Is it just me? I feel the ATJ choreography is weak - it's like a softcore porno, okay maybe that comparison is a bit much. While, I like CELL BLOCK TANGO behind bars, I don't like having the male dancers, and how they bring out like 100's of girls at the end - the number loses its intimacy. The ROXIE choreography is just plain weak. Now I find I CAN'T DO IT ALONE spectacular, It's a thrilling number. And Catherine nails it. This is probally my favorite number in the movie. RAZZLE DAZZLE is pretty good. I find the Billy tap dance stupid and out of place. HOT HONEY RAG is good, but lacks the thrill the Fosse version has.

Overall, I just feel like there is no Fosse in the movie. And it still boggles my mind that some people enjoy Marshall's choreo better than Ann's award winning choreography. But I respect that opinion of thse who fel that way. I feel the movie had to do with the revival didn't have to do. Use big sets and costumes to make the choreography more interesting.

Any thoughts, anyone agree?
Updated On: 9/23/05 at 05:23 PM

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:32pm

Although I respect and admire Bob Fosse's choreography from the original he's sadly not with us anymore. I would rather have 100% original Marshall choreography that at least works with the musical numbers at hand (which IMO it does) than to have a half-ass pale imitation of Fosse even be attempted.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:36pm

Maybe your talking about Cilento??

Ann Reinking created her own choreography with Fosse's style. She kept HHR's choreo EXACT as a tribute to Fosse.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:41pm

That's all well and good. But CHICAGO the film wasn't a Fosse movie. It wasn't meant to have any Fosse choreography. Just because Fosse choreographed the stage version doesn't mean they had to stick to the original stage choreography for the film. Fosse didn't stick to Ronald Field's original stage choreography for the film version of CABARET, did he?

EDIT: Dont get me wrong. I'm just trying to make a point.
Updated On: 9/23/05 at 05:41 PM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:42pm

Renee Z is no Gwen Verdon
Catherine Z-J is no Chita Rivera.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:44pm

No they aren't. But that doesn't mean they weren't good in their own right. And I really don't think that was the point of this thread, was it?

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:45pm

In all fairness we can just start a whole thread of posts:

Brooke Shields in NO Gwen Verdon.
Bebe Neuwirth is NO Chita Rivera.
and so on and so forth...BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Updated On: 9/23/05 at 05:45 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:45pm

Well, without Fosse and Gwen Verdon there would be NO Chicago (The Musical.)

So I just feel there should've been a little Fosse tribute in the choreograpy somewhere in the movie.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:47pm

Again, they felt it wasn't necessary. It was a new take on the musical. They dedicated the movie to them and they felt that was enough. They even gave Chita a cameo. That was their way of tipping their hats off to the original team that made it all possible.

EDIT: Their wouldn't be any CHICAGO the musical without the original play by Maurine Dallas Watkins. Updated On: 9/23/05 at 05:47 PM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:48pm

*Humps Marquise's avatar*

Ahem.

I like the choreography in the movie, although I think Zeta Jones was probably capable of even more than they let her do, but it might have shown Zellweger up to much as a lesser dancer.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:50pm

I would put Catherine in the current revival anyday, she could definitely handle it.

Renee on the other hand, no.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:51pm

I thought the choreography in the movie worked beautifully.

And to reverse the coin (also to prove a point here):

Gwen Verdon is (or was) no Renee Zellweger
Chita Rivera is no Catherine Zeta-Jones

Both stage divas gave it the old college try, but they're just not movie stars, let alone Oscar-winning movie stars. I say let's respect all four ladies' talents and abilities for what they are and were.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:52pm

I think it would be fantastic if they got Catherine to do the revival of Chicago with the Fosse/Reinking choreo. Can you imagine?!!! Sales would go through the roof, no doubt!

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:54pm

Umm. MARQUISE. I think I know there would be no CHICAGO musical without the play.

But what I am saying is.. Fosse promised Gwen one more musical created for her. And Gwen wanted to play Roxie Hart, so it took a while for Fosse to get the rights. So without those two this musical would've never been created.

[Marquise]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 5:58pm

Point taken, and I'm sure Gwen was phenomenal in the role, no doubt.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:07pm

Marquise is on the money here--we always have to remember that a revival or film or another new production of a play or musical should have the freedom to treat the work as if it just arrived in the mail today--to start from scratch.

As was already said, Fosse did exactly this with Cabaret and Marshall with Cabaret and Chicago himself.

I once did a production of A Chorus Line that used Fosseesque choreography. It was just as valid and thrilling for the audience as would have been our using Michael Bennett's brilliant choreography.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:09pm

Yeah but can you blame Fosse/Gwen fanatics (like myself) for being dissapointed that there is no Fosse in the movie?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:17pm

I believe Gwen's connection to CHICAGO is even deeper than that. Wasn't it she, not Fosse, who spent YEARS trying to get the rights from Maurine Watkins going all the way back to the late 50s? Watkins always refused, but after she died in 1969, Verdon and Fosse were finally able to secure the rights from her estate.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:18pm

Well, I can see the desire, but that it wasn't in the film shouldn't be a criticism of the artistic merit of Marshall's work. You can disagree with a choice but still see the merit of the choice made if such exists.

I'm sure fans of Ron Fields and his great work on Cabaret were sad to not see this recreated for the film. But, what would you say if they automatically dismissed the quality of work Fosse did?

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:19pm

I've heard it two ways.

The way you just mentioned, Margo. And that Fosse promised Gwen one more musical, and she wanted to play Roxie, and it took Fosse a while to get the rights.

Similar stories.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:28pm

Yeah, they actually could sort of fit together. He promised her one more show, so she might have said, "Well, I've been trying for years..... why don't YOU try again for the rights to ROXIE HART?" or something like that. And the rest is history.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:33pm

Yes. I can definitely see it working that way.

I sure am glad they finally got the rights, and the musical came about!

[bjivie2]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:53pm

Now I love Fosse just as much as the next person, but he's had plenty of success on stage and in the movies. This wasn't his movie, it was Rob Marshall's. I wasn't disapointed at all that there was no "Fosse" in the movie. I wasn't expecting any in the first place. This is just a personal opinion, but I would rather see new and exciting things done with shows and musical numbers, rather than simply recycling old material.

But I would say it is a shame that Fosse's choreography wasn't recorded and preserved.

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 6:58pm

I'm not saying the whole movie should be Fosse, just maybe a signature Fosse move would've been nice.

But I do have the right to think the Marshall's choreo is completely lackluster to Ann Reinkings.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/23/05 at 7:05pm

Of course you have the right! And I would be surprised at you if you didn't feel that way... based on your love and admiration of his work and Gwen's, too! It was their baby when it was a stage show.

But Baby grew up and went to Hollywood and found a new daddy for the movies.

I love them both, and I really wish there was a video of the OBC for all of us to enjoy.