Met Stops Blackface Use- Page 5

[Showface]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:33pm

""You know Audra McDonald went to Juliard, right?
Also, have you ever seen a production of Porgy and Bess? Usually they have about 60 people in their cast. Do you know what race they are? Do you? Take a guess. How have you not been punched in the face before?"
 did you even read the beginning of the thread? There might be 60 black people on the stage but i can guarantee you they all don't sing opera. Norm Lewis was in a production of Porgy and Bess cause they needed color on the stage. He said that lol"

 

 

*facepalm*

Just . . . no 

[Showface]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:37pm

If "colorblind casting" is really just turning into just another way for POC to not get hired in this business....then colorblind casting needs a MAJOR change

[theatremelvin94]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:47pm

""again, blackface is racist and inappropriate. All I'm saying is that i believe in color blind casting. Aleksandrs is gonna kill it"
Colorblind casting was developed to give more opportunities to minority actors to play roles that are traditionally played by white actors without any story-based necessity.  It was NOT developed to give white performers minority roles.  It does not apply both ways."

 Correct. Otello is from North Africa, and some effort should have been made to find an appropriate tenor. 

[MOUSTACHA]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:54pm

""This would sure mean more if they also weren't going to have a white singer doing the role.
Whenever people are like BUT NO BLACK ACTORS/SINGERS CAN DO IT I'm like, one, **** you when's the last time you held auditions calling for them, and two, maybe you shouldn't do ****ing Othello then."
Casting in opera is color blind, by necessity. It's all about casting the best singer, period, in the same way you hire the best violinist you can find. Otello is an extremely difficult role to sing, and there aren't that many singers who can do it. To say we should be deprived of Antonenko's rendition just because he's white is silly.
And anyway, there's nothing saying Otello has to even be black. He could be northern African. Interpretations of Shakespeare's text vary, but since he is a Moor, it makes sense for him to be Arab rather than black. Not that it really matters, because, again, opera is color blind.
 "

 Opera casting is always a decisive issue.  It's sure is easy to say "well cast more minorities!" Ultimately, though, this can be somewhat difficult.  Not because they don't exists, because non-white opera singers are certainly out there, but rather because the Met demands a certain pedigree - i.e. they insist on presenting the BEST.  Which, like it or not, often means training, education, teachers, etc. 

NOW, the important thing to also remember is Opera is a European tradition (i.e. Caucasian decent).  Before you attack me on this, I only bring this up because it means that Caucasian families often have a deeper tradition of going to these art forms (wealth is also a big indicator).  Because of that, kids are more interested in them, pursue them more often, and end up getting the best education and training because of their talent (or more often times a lot of money).  Minorities, on the other hand, have traditions in other forms of entertainment, or, because of historical oppression, not a lot of 'deep' (i.e. number of years, not quality) traditions in formal art forms like this at all.  This means fewer minority families tend to go to art forms like opera, ergo fewer kids get interested, ergo even fewer pursue the art form.  So, just by basic math, Caucasian kids have an inherent, built in advantage.  

SO, now as the Met you're tasked with bringing the best possible Opera to New York City, and you bring in the best artists to maintain that mandate.  The majority of artists that fit into the requirements to sing on the Met stage are going to be Caucasian.  To say, go cast a minority for the part! doesn't really solve the inherent problem that the pool is just going to be smaller.  The Met has instead turned to the use of Make-up to try and manipulate the visual aspect the audience member is going to experience.  They have, rightly I believe, decided to stop that practice.

What about "regional opera"?  Well, because of the exorbitant cost of opera, and the lack of interest and funding, this doesn't really exist.  I mean, sure, there are other companies, but the gap between those companies and say, the Met, is going to be drastic.  So, many opera singers, minority or not, tend to get lost in the void because they don't have many places to actually be heard, or develop their art.  Opera, much like Ballet, is a dying art form (Orchestra and Theatre are headed in that direction).  Which brings us to a conversation about attracting a bigger minority audience to Opera/Orchestra/Theatre/Ballet, and I think that's the biggest step we can take to improve these conditions.  More non-white people come, their kids get into it, they study it, they rise to the top, more non-white performers exist at the top, organizations like the Met have a bigger casting pool. 

Now, there are many other factors that discourage or encourage certain groups to explore art forms, and we could go into many of them here, but I think it's important to point the above out for simple context of Operatic casting. 

Ultimately, I'd love to know how many people posting about this actually go to the Opera on a regular basis. The answer might suggest why Opera has such a hard time surviving...

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:57pm

^ THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! 

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 4:00pm

"""You know Audra McDonald went to Juliard, right?
Also, have you ever seen a production of Porgy and Bess? Usually they have about 60 people in their cast. Do you know what race they are? Do you? Take a guess. How have you not been punched in the face before?"
 did you even read the beginning of the thread? There might be 60 black people on the stage but i can guarantee you they all don't sing opera. Norm Lewis was in a production of Porgy and Bess cause they needed color on the stage. He said that lol"
 
 
*facepalm*

Just . . . no"

 what do you mean by this? Im stating a fact. You don't get it. That is the problem with this thread. People who have absolutely no idea about opera are talking like they know. 

[Fantod]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 4:15pm

Like you?

 

 

MODS, CAN WE BAN PHILLYPINTO?

[theatremelvin94]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 4:17pm

"Like you?
 
 
MODS, CAN WE BAN PHILLYPINTO?"

 He's a little bit annoying, but I don't see the benefits in banning people. They'll just come back under a different name and using a different browser. 

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 4:59pm

Fantod, I've said it on here many times that i am a classically trained singer and have been an opera fan for a long time. I sure as hell know a lot more than most of the people on this thread about opera

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 5:01pm

I DUG for this, but i remembered him saying this. I think this will really open some of your eyes about the amount of black people in opera

from 0:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvGnXVuqrog

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 5:22pm

https://twitter.com/phillypinto

[MOUSTACHA]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 5:35pm

Also, this appeared today, so I thought I'd post it to those actually interested in Opera:

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/6/9107993/how-to-go-to-an-opera

 

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 5:38pm

Just wanted to lighten the mood in this deeply f*cked thread!

[ggersten]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 5:53pm

I was never tempted to do what LH did.  And I thought LH would have second thoughts and delete that post.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:05pm

"Any cries of outrage?  We need to remember the difference between legitimate character appearance and the Al-Jolson-Mickey-and-Judy type of burnt cork application we commonly refer to as "blackface".  Peter Gelb should have bigger things to worry about."

Well, I can't be outraged about I didn't know about. I think the issue is more complicated than whether something blatantly racist. Sure, casting Rita Moreno as Tuptim was not as bad as casting Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's. But, you know, still not the greatest choice.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:27pm

LIZA GO F*CK YOURSELF

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:27pm

"I was never tempted to do what LH did.  And I thought LH would have second thoughts and delete that post. "

 

Well, when you appear to be a real piece of s h i t .....a poster doesn't usually do the right thing.

 

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:29pm

who are you calling a piece of **** me or liza

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:31pm

I was responding to a post about Liza's Headband.  So, Liza's Headband.  

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:32pm

oh yea she is a piece of ****

[theatremelvin94]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 6:47pm

Outing, even if its information obtainable with a simple Google search, is never appropriate. Mods should delete that comment.

[Fantod]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 7:07pm

I think this might take the award for biggest cluster**** in BWW history.

Liza, you are a sociopath

Pinto, you are still a racist and a homophobe

[Margo319]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 7:48pm

HELLO MODS?!?!?  DELETE LIZAS HEADBAND HORRIBLE INVASION OF PRIVACY ON ANOTHER POSTER.  WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??????????????

[hork]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 8:59pm

"Yeah, darkening your skin to make yourself a different race is racist, even if it isn't technically blackface."

What about lightening your skin? Is dressing in drag sexist? Is putting on old-age makeup ageist? There's nothing about darkening your skin with makeup that implies that the race you're emulating is inferior to yours. There's blackface, and then there's just dark makeup. Can't we separate the two?

[Showface]

Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:06pm

""Yeah, darkening your skin to make yourself a different race is racist, even if it isn't technically blackface."
What about lightening your skin? Is dressing in drag sexist? Is putting on old-age makeup ageist? There's nothing about darkening your skin with makeup that implies that the race you're emulating is inferior to yours. There's blackface, and then there's just dark makeup. Can't we separate the two?"

 Those examples aren't even in the same vein!

I'm just going to leave this quote another poster in this thread said that I felt the need to requote:

"Colorblind casting was developed to give more opportunities to minority actors to play roles that are traditionally played by white actors without any story-based necessity.  It was NOT developed to give white performers minority roles.  It does not apply both ways."