Met Stops Blackface Use- Page 4
Met Stops Blackface Use
Fantod
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/3/14
#75Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/5/15 at 9:26pm
You know Audra McDonald went to Juliard, right?
Also, have you ever seen a production of Porgy and Bess? Usually they have about 60 people in their cast. Do you know what race they are? Do you? Take a guess. How have you not been punched in the face before?
#76Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/5/15 at 9:29pm
"""It's just the same thing as saying most rappers are black. And that's okay!"
It's not the same thing in the sense that rappers aren't being put in roles where they're pretending to be in a different ethnicity.
Besides, if they're really having as much trouble finding non-white opera singers as you say they are, then they should just do shows that don't blatantly have non-white characters. There are many operas based in European settings to choose from."
Why are we assuming Pinto's premise is true when we *know* it isn't? "
I know it's not, but I decided to humor him; his argument made no sense either way.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
VintageSnarker
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/30/15
#77Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/5/15 at 9:30pm
"Whenever people are like BUT NO BLACK ACTORS/SINGERS CAN DO IT I'm like, one, **** you when's the last time you held auditions calling for them, and two, maybe you shouldn't do ****ing Othello then."
This is slightly off topic but I find this issue baffling sometimes. In schools, you know who is likely to audition for the show. If your student body isn't predominantly Asian, why are you doing The King and I?
#78Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/5/15 at 10:18pm
"This would sure mean more if they also weren't going to have a white singer doing the role.
Whenever people are like BUT NO BLACK ACTORS/SINGERS CAN DO IT I'm like, one, **** you when's the last time you held auditions calling for them, and two, maybe you shouldn't do ****ing Othello then."
Casting in opera is color blind, by necessity. It's all about casting the best singer, period, in the same way you hire the best violinist you can find. Otello is an extremely difficult role to sing, and there aren't that many singers who can do it. To say we should be deprived of Antonenko's rendition just because he's white is silly.
And anyway, there's nothing saying Otello has to even be black. He could be northern African. Interpretations of Shakespeare's text vary, but since he is a Moor, it makes sense for him to be Arab rather than black. Not that it really matters, because, again, opera is color blind.
PatrickDennis92
Stand-by Joined: 9/25/12
#79Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 12:28am
I guess I'll just be the weird one who sounds racist, but I personally only find things like what the Met was doing, and I wouldn't call it blackface, offensive is if it's in the context of what is actually racist. But what is racist to me may not be what constitutes racism to you. I, personally, am in a different place where I think we should be able to cast anyone we want for anything and we can do whatever we want to make them look however we want. I think if Beyonce wants to look white for a photo, fine; I think if someone who isn't black wants to play a historically black person, fine-- and the opposite as well. I think most people agree that colorblind and genderblind casting are good things-- however, for the same reason we would let Titus B play the Witch in into the woods, and then dress him like "a woman", I don't find it offensive if we suggest alternate races or genders or ages in our creative depictions of characters on stage. Some disagree. But it's all in how we look at it. That said, I won't miss the makeup either. I'll just go with the flow. I know the Met isn't racist, but if this is what we need to do to make better things happen, I'm game.
#80Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 10:40am
I've seen no mention here of black performers appearing in "whiteface". Many years ago at the Met, I was watching a performance of EUGENE ONEGIN and it took me some time to realize that the black performer, Isola Jones, was performing in Caucasian make-up. I barely recognized her even though I had been working with her on other productions there at the same time.
Let's also recall Jane White, a wonderful Black actress who originated the role of Queen Aggravian in ONCE UPON A MATTRESS in "whiteface". Oddly enough, she also passed for white as The Dutchess of Krakenthorp in LA FILLE DU REGIMENT at, you guessed it, the Met. Also consider Lonette McKee, a black actress who more than once has needed to "lighten up" to play characters who were, ironically enough, passing for white.
Any cries of outrage? We need to remember the difference between legitimate character appearance and the Al-Jolson-Mickey-and-Judy type of burnt cork application we commonly refer to as "blackface". Peter Gelb should have bigger things to worry about.
Well-well-well-what-do-you-think-of-that-I-have-nothing-here-to-pay-my-train-fare-with-only-large-bills-fives-and-sevens....
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 10:40 AM
LarryD2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/1/14
#81Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 11:07am
The Met still uses blackface for AIDA when a non-black singer is playing the role, right? At least they did the last time I saw it and Violeta Urmana was singing the role. They should retire that custom, as well.
#82Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 11:18am
Almost EVERYBODY wears dark make-up in AIDA, and not just at the Met. That doesn't mean they're all made up to sing "Waiting For The Robert E. Lee".
Well-well-well-what-do-you-think-of-that-I-have-nothing-here-to-pay-my-train-fare-with-only-large-bills-fives-and-sevens....
LarryD2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/1/14
#83Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 11:25am
The ROH has had a no-blackface policy for over a decade. Nina Stemme did not wear skin-darkening makeup when she sang the role in Nicolas Joel's production in Zurich, several years ago. I saw that production and it didn't take me out of the experience in any way. I'm well-aware that many non-black singers who sing Aida (or Otello, for that matter) wear skin-darkening makeup (I worked for a well-known U.S. opera company for 10 years). I also never suggested that an individual singer is racist for wearing makeup, so keep your inferences to a minimum. But it is an outdated custom that should be retired. The Met's decision not to use blackface in their new OTELLO production is a step in the right direction.
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 11:25 AM#84Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 11:58am
Funny, in his "bronze" make-up, Aleksandrs Antonenko looks no more like his head shot than if he were made up to play the Wicked Witch of the West. Make-up is make-up. For Peter Gelb to "make a statement" about it is mere publicity- smoke and mirrors. It will mean nothing when the Chagalls disappear from the lobby.
Well-well-well-what-do-you-think-of-that-I-have-nothing-here-to-pay-my-train-fare-with-only-large-bills-fives-and-sevens....
Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/13
#85Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 12:00pm
Blackface is not "make-up." Blackface is racist. Just as the Confederate Flag isn't only a "a flag." It is racist.
#86Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 12:06pm
Make-up is make-up. Or should Reynolds Aluminum sue Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer over Jack Haley's make-up in THE WIZARD OF OZ?
Well-well-well-what-do-you-think-of-that-I-have-nothing-here-to-pay-my-train-fare-with-only-large-bills-fives-and-sevens....
Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/13
#87Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 12:14pm
There is no racism inherently associated with silver, gold or brown shades of stage make-up and you know it. Don't be obtuse. You cannot look at this within a vacuum... Context is key. I again compare it to the Confederate Flag, which is not just another ordinary flag. It's a symbol of hatred & discrimination and when put into historical context, which is necessary while logically processing or communicating a thought, is racist. Blackface gained popularity in 1830 with the intention of proliferating racial stereotypes. You simply cannot justify its use.... then or now.
#88Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 12:30pm
As you yourself say, there is indeed nothing inherently racist in brown stage make-up- just my point as well. We agree. That said, I certainly don't justify burnt-cork faces and clown-white lips exaggerated out of proportion, and there is a difference between legitimate character representation and what is essentially a mask.
Well-well-well-what-do-you-think-of-that-I-have-nothing-here-to-pay-my-train-fare-with-only-large-bills-fives-and-sevens....
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 12:30 PM
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#89Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 1:37pm
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
#90Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 2:20pm
Yikes.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/13
#91Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 2:23pm
As you yourself say, there is indeed nothing inherently racist in brown stage make-up- just my point as well. We agree.
That is because the art of darkening one's skin to a different or slightly darker shade, such as brown, isn't inherently racist. But that is not what we're discussing here. We're discussing Blackface (notice: blackface), which is on a completely different level and brings an entirely different meaning/intention to the act of doing so.
You skipped the second half of my post to try and justify the cruel practice of Blackface. I assure you that we do not "agree" on this. Stop trying to twist my words....
#92Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 2:31pm
I want to burn this motha frickin' thread down.
The ignorant, narrow minded and blatant racism on display here makes me want to punch the persons who are writing such drivel right in the face...and draw blood.
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 02:31 PM
Fantod
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/3/14
#93Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 2:51pm
Yeah, darkening your skin to make yourself a different race is racist, even if it isn't technically blackface. I've never seen such blatant ignorant racism on the internet before being treated like it's okay. If you find yourself agreeing with the human sociopath that is Liza's Headband, it's time to rethink your life.
LarryD2
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/1/14
#94Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:05pm
there is a difference between legitimate character representation and what is essentially a mask.
You're really going to try and argue stringent parameters for "legitimate character representation" in opera? When was the last time Cio-Cio San was played by an actual 14-year-old Japanese girl?
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 03:05 PM
#95Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:23pm
Yeah sure, blackface has no cultural context entrenched in racism and oppression via dehumanization, make-up's just make-up it's all totally fine! I don't understand the history of racial oppression in America so it's fine!
#96Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:28pm
"You know Audra McDonald went to Juliard, right?
Also, have you ever seen a production of Porgy and Bess? Usually they have about 60 people in their cast. Do you know what race they are? Do you? Take a guess. How have you not been punched in the face before?"
did you even read the beginning of the thread? There might be 60 black people on the stage but i can guarantee you they all don't sing opera. Norm Lewis was in a production of Porgy and Bess cause they needed color on the stage. He said that lol
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#97Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:30pm
again, blackface is racist and inappropriate. All I'm saying is that i believe in color blind casting. Aleksandrs is gonna kill it
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#98Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:32pm
"again, blackface is racist and inappropriate. All I'm saying is that i believe in color blind casting. Aleksandrs is gonna kill it"
Colorblind casting was developed to give more opportunities to minority actors to play roles that are traditionally played by white actors without any story-based necessity. It was NOT developed to give white performers minority roles. It does not apply both ways.
theatremelvin94
Understudy Joined: 8/1/15
#99Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 3:33pm
The problem with blackface is that it was used to exclude black actors, and it also reinforced racist stereotypes. This has nothing to do with the content of the show. The Met has shown that it can stand up for itself in those cases (the Klinghoffer affair) and Lincoln Center has put on a beautiful staging of The King and I, whose controversy has been debated for decades.
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