Met Stops Blackface Use- Page 6
Met Stops Blackface Use
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#125Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:06pm
""Yeah, darkening your skin to make yourself a different race is racist, even if it isn't technically blackface."
What about lightening your skin? Is dressing in drag sexist? Is putting on old-age makeup ageist? There's nothing about darkening your skin with makeup that implies that the race you're emulating is inferior to yours. There's blackface, and then there's just dark makeup. Can't we separate the two?"
Those examples aren't even in the same vein!
I'm just going to leave this quote another poster in this thread said that I felt the need to requote:
"Colorblind casting was developed to give more opportunities to minority actors to play roles that are traditionally played by white actors without any story-based necessity. It was NOT developed to give white performers minority roles. It does not apply both ways."
#126Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:15pm
"Colorblind casting was developed to give more opportunities to minority actors to play roles that are traditionally played by white actors without any story-based necessity. It was NOT developed to give white performers minority roles. It does not apply both ways.""
But this is opera, not theater. It's a whole different animal. It's the voice you cast, not the performer.
Showface
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/25/14
#127Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:22pm
Well, then I guess I just disagree with "Opera" then...but it's still a performance. It's not just audio...you're not sitting there with your eyes closed at operas.
My thing is this:
If you are going to do a production that features various races + ethnic backgrounnds, they need to be represented in the cast, especially in the lead roles.
Now, let's say push comes to shove, and casting just does not work out that way, which very well could happen, and this production is an absolute must to do. Then what? Then you cast whoever you need to cast, but don't alter their skin color just to represent a different race...just put them in costume and go on with the performance.
Updated On: 8/6/15 at 09:22 PM#128Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:39pm
That makes sense, and it's what they're doing. But I actually don't see a problem with dark makeup just because it might possibly remind some audience members of a time when horrid, racist caricatures were the norm on stage. But I also don't have a problem with no makeup. I do think opera, and ballet, because of the demands of the art forms, need to have this sort of color-blind casting. I don't think, say, Al Pacino should be playing Shakespeare's Othello, but with Verdi's Otello, you really do need the best singer you can get. It's about the perfection of the art form, rather than any sort of theatrical verisimilitude, and in that sense it's more akin to a concert than a play.
#129Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:43pm
It could be a lot worse anyway. This isn't really even blackface. If anything call it brownface. It just looks like he put on tan makeup really. 
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#130Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/6/15 at 9:44pm
and what does it take for the mods to take action on this board! I PM'd Rob and then he posted a thread later on. Wtf hellooooooooo do something about Liza please!!
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Sutherland
Swing Joined: 12/29/12
#131Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/7/15 at 11:37pm
That is correct. There are NO world class tenors from any of the countries you list. Casting Otello on the operatic stage is not the same as casting Othello in a theatrical company. It is written for a rare type of voice, a big, trumpet-like Italian dramatic tenor who also has darker (vocal) coloration in his voice. It is the pinnacle role of Italian opera for tenors, usually not even attempted until a singer is well into his career. I am not saying that there have not been undiscovered PoC who could sing the role, but to date, none of them have presented themselves. Some lighter-voiced African-Americans tenors have told of being coerced into trying to sing the role simply because of their color. This would be a disservice to both them and to the role (think Kelli O'Hara singing Rose in Gypsy). Everybody connected with opera longs for the day when a first-rate tenor of color will finally sing the role, but it has yet to happen. And don't judge too harshly. The opera was written for an Italian tenor, Tamagno, in a time when black singers simply didn't exist on the operatic stage. Yes, it took opera too long to catch up, an spoken theatre too. But, just as black singers absolutely have the right to sing characters who are clearly not black in the story, there is no need to blame white tenors for singing the role of Otello, just as Olivier and Gielgud and Scofield and countless others played the Shakespearean version--it's just that the make-up itself has become an issue in our time. It would have meant banning one of the greatest operas for decades, continuing to the present day. If that's your solution to the problem, so be it.
#132Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/7/15 at 11:57pm
"That is correct. There are NO world class tenors from any of the countries you list. Casting Otello on the operatic stage is not the same as casting Othello in a theatrical company. It is written for a rare type of voice, a big, trumpet-like Italian dramatic tenor who also has darker (vocal) coloration in his voice. It is the pinnacle role of Italian opera for tenors, usually not even attempted until a singer is well into his career. I am not saying that there have not been undiscovered PoC who could sing the role, but to date, none of them have presented themselves. Some lighter-voiced African-Americans tenors have told of being coerced into trying to sing the role simply because of their color. This would be a disservice to both them and to the role (think Kelli O'Hara singing Rose in Gypsy). Everybody connected with opera longs for the day when a first-rate tenor of color will finally sing the role, but it has yet to happen. And don't judge too harshly. The opera was written for an Italian tenor, Tamagno, in a time when black singers simply didn't exist on the operatic stage. Yes, it took opera too long to catch up, an spoken theatre too. But, just as black singers absolutely have the right to sing characters who are clearly not black in the story, there is no need to blame white tenors for singing the role of Otello, just as Olivier and Gielgud and Scofield and countless others played the Shakespearean version--it's just that the make-up itself has become an issue in our time. It would have meant banning one of the greatest operas for decades, continuing to the present day. If that's your solution to the problem, so be it."
While that kind of makes sense, I must point out that no one here is blaming the white singers. They're just taking a job, after all.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
#133Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 12:43am
"That makes sense, and it's what they're doing. But I actually don't see a problem with dark makeup just because it might possibly remind some audience members of a time when horrid, racist caricatures were the norm on stage."
If that's the point they intend to make about blackface, sure. But you're giving this hypothetical opera company a lot of credit.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
Fosse76
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/21/05
#134Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 12:59am
What did LH do that was an invasion of privacy? The only thing I see is the linking to a Twitter account, which is most assuredly NOT an invasion of privacy.
There is no defense of the use of Blackface. None. It is absolutely racist. If you cannot find a black actor/actress for a role that is written for that particular race, the. Do not produce that show/opera. There is no excuse. None. And anyone who defends it is a racist.
#135Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:13am
yes that is an invasion of privacy. would you mind if i just posted a link to your Facebook page all over a message board?
and you clearly have no idea about opera so stfu
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#136Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:43am
A very popular British variety show back in the 60s was the George Mitchell Black and White Minstrel Show-TV and theatre.
The live show toured twice around Australia and New Zealand and I auditioned and was successful for the 2nd tour-employing me about 2years.
My 'blackface' was actually pancake called Max Factor[American] Negro No2[not black but more like the colour on the man above]-lips and eye surrounds were white with a short black curley wig, white gloves. The girls[Minstrelettes-Yes !-were white].
We were pirates,roaring 20s flappers,venetian romantics,soft shoe top hat and cane dancers and tambourine banging minstrels, interspersed with tivoli type variety acts.
We sold out nearly every performance and even did some early evenings so twice nightly.
Never once did any of us give actual thought to what we were doing,or portraying, in fact what we had to do vocally was create a certain singing style that George Mitchell had structured like 'singing minstrels'.
The Al Jolson medley was always in the show.
We were all happy to be in work and collect our $90.a week.
Times change, the show no longer exists and it belongs to part of entertainment history.
Right or wrong, the show was advertised for what it was--a Minstrel variety show--audiences loved the TV show and wanted to see it 'live'--so they came.
Did we offend anyone, I don't know-there were never any protests, just great publicity wherever we went-and noone knew who we were without our makeup.
My point--thinking changes, progress is made, mistakes are made and hopefully lessons are learnt.
Yesterdays mistakes are best left there, it's what we do tomorrow that counts.
Peace and understanding.
SweetLips
Updated On: 8/8/15 at 01:43 AM#137Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 1:47am
"What did LH do that was an invasion of privacy? The only thing I see is the linking to a Twitter account, which is most assuredly NOT an invasion of privacy."
How is posting the link to a poster's personal Twitter account NOT an invasion of privacy? It's a good thing Philly has his posts set to private, otherwise tons of people here could've had access to his personal stuff.
"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire
#138Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 12:06pm
""That makes sense, and it's what they're doing. But I actually don't see a problem with dark makeup just because it might possibly remind some audience members of a time when horrid, racist caricatures were the norm on stage."
If that's the point they intend to make about blackface, sure. But you're giving this hypothetical opera company a lot of credit."
I'm not saying that's the point they're making. I'm saying that's the reason they don't use dark makeup anymore.
And Fosse, calm down. The world is not so (if you'll pardon the expression) black and white as you seem to think it is. Nobody is a racist for wanting to see Otello even if a black performer is not available. Read Sutherland's latest post, he/she addresses the issue very well.
theatremelvin94
Understudy Joined: 8/1/15
#139Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 10:24pm
"If you cannot find a black actor/actress for a role that is written for that particular race... Do not produce that show/opera."
I think this is too extreme, particularly for Otello. An honest effort must be made to find an appropriate tenor, which I don't think has been done here. But if it is done, and for whatever reason there are only white tenors available, it should go forward––––and without blackface.
#140Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/8/15 at 10:51pm
Opera has and always should be cast by musical abilities. Age, size, looks or ( especially since the 60s ) race has not been a major factor. This has allowed a 30 year old African American (Leontyne Price) to sing a 16 year old Geisha, a overweight Italian tenor in 50s (Pavarotti) to sing a starving French man in his early 20s, not the most attractive sopranos to sing Helen of Troy, the most beautiful woman. Opera audiences don't care what singers look like if they sound wonderful. Almost all roles are And should be open to any singer if they can sing the part.
Updated On: 8/8/15 at 10:51 PM
#142Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/9/15 at 4:18pm
how do we know if someone got banned?
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Liza's Headband
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/13
#143Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/9/15 at 8:25pm
They wouldn't be able to post on here. That's how. Hope you're doing well, P. 
#145Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/9/15 at 11:50pm
how have they not banned liza yet
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#146Met Stops Blackface Use
Posted: 8/10/15 at 1:36am
Man, people really like to show their as*es here when posting about race/racism. Or gender. Or LGBTQ stuff. Or basically anything relating to social issues. This whole thread is ridiculous in so many ways.
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