Minorities and the Theatre: A Discussion — Page 3

Well I hope you enjoy it!

In the meantime, check out my 2 part interview with Randy Weeks if you have not read it. I am kind of proud of it and have been getting positive feedback on it from people here in Denver and other states. I actually had someone walk up to me at a show last night to congratulate me on it. Made me feel good.

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But I think with the expense of broadway ANd the perception that it's for white people with money (as a few mentioned before), people aren't willing to go that far to go out of their comfort zone.

I mean, people barely do that with TV and movies (if you looked at the Top 10 shows for blacks vs whites, they are totally different, or the popularity of Tyler Perry movies in the black community vs others) and those are much cheaper (if not free).

still, it's like me trying to convince my straight guy friends that musicals can be good since they all saw Phantom and Cats first and now hate musicals. I'm like, I hate those musicals too, you just have to see something different but most are not willing to go past that point (but those that I forced Rent or Spring Awakening or even Chorus Line or Company ended up really enjoying the shows).

But, since most people dont have me nagging and planning shows for them, I dont think people will spend the time to research shows, buy tickets and spend that money to see something they perceive they won't like (even if those perceptions are wrong or based on misconceptions).

But yah, I wish people were more open to seeing stories that they may not relate to, just for the sake of good storytelling, good theatre, acting etc. but I think most people don't care enough or are afraid of it. And I think the adverts and how Broadway is marketing itself doesn't always help break that barrier. (More in education programs and outreach from the theatre community might help).

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I'm white, admittedly, but I just wanted to comment on Miss Saigon: I've never agreed that it's about an Asian woman killing herself for a white man. It's about an Asian woman killing herself so her son can have a better life (not in terms of race, but in terms of economic advantage etc). Even having escaped communist Vietnam, Kim was still only working as a bar girl.

Maybe you'll disagree, but that's how I've always felt. Not that the show doesn't have other racial issues, of course.

Edit: I should add that the person who posted that still makes an excellent point.

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Updated On: 4/11/09 at 12:13 PM

Oh, definitely, I think Miss Saigon handled it much better than Madama Butterfly. I love M. Butterfly, but I've always disagreed how Madama Butterfly is imperialistic and about the superiority of Europeans to Asian etc (though I can certainly see how it is offensive to Asians, and agree that the archetype is unsettling). A lot of operas feature white women killing themselves for men, and I find those beautiful, too. I think MB's beauty is in the music.

But, sorry, this is off-topic, so let me say: I would love to see an Asian-centered musical that doesn't deal with Asian vs. European/American culture.

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Updated On: 4/11/09 at 12:43 PM

Agreed, SporkGoddess. There's also an Asian inferiority complex which has nothing to do with theatre, but that's probably why I don't personally like seeing Asian people assimilating or succumbing to white people onstage. Give me an empowering Asian musical and I'm there! Until then, I'll have to settle with what I have and be grateful that there are any musicals with Asian people in them. And I am grateful for that. Also, this is part of our history, the inferiority and the assimilation, etc. It's just not as uplifting as African-American triumphs in society or Latino pride.

~Steven

Why are latinos supporting shows like In the Heights and Celia, because it is advertised on channels such as Telemundo, Univision and spanish radio stations. I don't remember ever seeing a spanish commercial for Phantom or The Lion King.

ARIELT, have you read the entire thread? I think Rentboy knows that. His post was referring to those who don't. And there are a LOT of African Americans who don't see anything but all black shows.

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Jazzy, I don't want to try and put words in your mouth, but do you think you'd say there's also a lot of class issues involved?

I personally do, which is why I was asking. I think issues like education and cutting of arts programs affect people of lower socio-economic status, many of who happen to be minorities. so, there isn't as much exposure to different forms of theater, as you pointed out in your post.

this made me think of an article I read in the NY Times about the spring musicals in New Jersey high schools. one of the schools they profiled was Hoboken High School. despite Hoboken's reputation as a yuppie haven, it's actually one of the 31 poorest school districts in New Jersey. the student body is also largely Hispanic and African American, so I think it relates to our discussion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/nyregion/new-jersey/05paper.html


I was also wondering, given bwayleadman's comment about advertising on Telemundo, how much language barriers would be affecting who is and isn't going to the theater. I know people talk about a lot of international tourists at shows, but I was wondering more about non-English or limited English speakers who are living in the States.

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I totally agree. In a perfect world music programs and art programs wouldn't be getting cut in schools to make way for football teams. At my high school we had an award winning theater program (best in the south east for two years running), but we didn't get an ounce of praise. Instead our sports team - which pretty much all sucked - were praised and thrown money and even earned a new locker room while we were left with basically nothing.

I'm surprised most schools in the new york metro area don't take their kids to a Broadway show. Surely they could get some sort of discount and expose them to some theater, but maybe they do? I'm not pretending to be an expert on any of this.

It's all based on a plethora of different ideas and reasons, but I just thought the topic was interesting. I'm really fascinated by the way race is handled in society. For me, I don't think it's a big deal. I hate when people say stuff like "I don't see any color" because to me that's totally discounting someone's originality and heritage. I mean, why not embrace race?

And ARIELT, say what? Did you read anything on this thread?

True. But I grew-up in a typical suburb. I went to the theatre a good bit, and I saw school plays, etc. So it's not like any of us were exempt from the theater. I mean, everyone in the school had to go see the "One Act" that the high school was putting on that year. So everyone was at least exposed to some sort of theater. But that's just us. I don't know how it is in other schools.

Very interesting thread. As an Asian-Canadian male, who has been going to the theatre for 20+ years, I am still dismayed when I go to the Broadway-type theatres in Toronto and can count the Asians on my fingers. It is increasing, but slowly. And slowly compared to other areas such as sports. I would say that you see more non-white people at baseball, basketball and hockey than you do at Big Theatre, despite the high ticket prices for all of those events (although, obviously, stadiums and arenas hold more people, so perhaps on an actual percentage it might be the same). Still, it's much easier to find non-white Raptors/Leafs/Jays fans than it is to find non-white fans of the theatre. I also so more non-white faces at the local film festivals, which I also attend.

I think it's partly upbringing. I think a lot of the traditional theatre audience has been attending the theatre for years, and it's a 'normal' form of entertainment. These are the middle aged subscribers, and families who bring their kids--who are brought up attending the theatre (and maybe other Arts like the symphony, opera, musuems, galleries, etc.). For a lot of other people it's a special-event thing: Phantom of the Opera, Mamma Mia, or maybe some show that relates to their ethnic group (Miss Saigon, Da Kink in My Hair).

I think marketing is important, and particularly outreach to other communities. In a city like Toronto, with a 50% immigrant population, theatre companies need to educate and reach out to these new audiences, many of whom are affluent (the Chinese and South Asian populations, for example) or are a part of the fabric of the city (West Indian and gay populations, for example), and this means not just shows, but making those shows part of the conversations.

I really would like to see more free public performances (Mirvish recently had 4 of its shows--We Will Rock You, Sound of Music, Spring Awakening (tour) and Dirty Dancing--perform in a downtown mall), discounts, groups and student groups, just to give people a taste of what live theatre is all about. While, of course, you want to attract your traditional audiences (middle class and affluent whites, Jews and gays), young people and ethnics are your future market.

I'm over 40 and I still felt like I was below average in age... at Spring Awakening. That's not right! And why were there so few "people of color," despite a decent turnout of black people at the previous touring musical, The Color Purple.

It's kind of dismaying at times, because I'd certainly like to see more 'people like me' in the audience (wouldn't mind seeing some Asian actors on stage, either), and it would seem that the marketing methods of the major theatre companies are of critical importance. That, and bringing student groups (urban schools are, of course, very multi-ethnic) so that young people can get a taste of the impact of live theatre.

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Updated On: 4/12/09 at 11:22 AM

No, I'm not Christian. I don't believe in a genie in the sky who is also his son and also a ghost but they are all the same and one and not three, even though they are called the TRInity.

And I still stand by what I said. Unfortunately, I guess I have to dumb it down to avoid unfortunate answers like this -

What about white people from Eastern Europe?

Is there a white people from Eastern Europe day or parade that I missed?

Seriously, in what way do you want to celebrate your whiteness? Instead of looking for reasons to blame the black people for rap songs that discriminate against you or neighborhoods you can't visit, why don't you explain to me what a celebration of your whiteness would be, and an actual GROUP (as in ORGANIZATION) that exists to celebrate "whiteness" that isn't about discrimination against other races.

And don't start qualifying it by nationality. It's not the same, and you know it.