NINE vs. DREAMGIRLS- Page 2

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 2:31pm

In the stage version, there's no drug or death subplot for Jimmy. His character arc ends when Curtis fires him after his onstage "Rap" incident where he drops his pants and Lorrell dumps him ("Lorrell loves Jimmy, it's true..... but Lorrell and Jimmy are through/I got a show to do..."). We don't see Jimmy again after that.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 2:34pm

Okay, Margo, you were never a kid.

I take it all back.

[Smaxie]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:37pm

>Dreamgirls' score is great, but lyrically, it's sometimes almost stupid.<

Which , is something I've always thought of Nine's lyrics, some of which land with a clank.

"I don't want to wake up tomorrow morning at the bottom of some heap..."

"The Germans at the Spa, are eating halvah"

The lyrically impenetrable "Folies Bergere," for which I still don't understand what Liliane Montevecchi was saying, after hearing it for 25 years

And last, but not least, the famed "Be Italian, you rapscallion".

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:38pm

I was too young to have seen either original productions, but on paper, I find NINE a superior show by miles and miles.

DREAMGIRLS is entertaining, but the emotional connection is thin.

NINE is like a therapy session.

[BreeDaniel]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:39pm

I understand why Nine won. It opened at the end of the season, had a lush score, a star turn center stage and a great press agent!

[NiteOwl]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:45pm

Didn't Bennett try to persuade Tune to open NINE later as to ensure DREAMGIRLS a Best Tony win?

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:46pm

I love how people make excuses for why their show didn't win the Tony.

"Oh, it was a political thing that year, pay no mind..."

[NiteOwl]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:48pm

I've never seen NINE so I can't fairly compare the two.

[ruprecht]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:49pm

I still can't believe "Titanic" beat "The Life." Thanks, rosie!

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:55pm

Oh I don't think THE LIFE holds up well at all. The Best Musical Tony that year was something of a lesser of two evils. TITANIC at least has some accomplished music. Some of the rhymes in THE LIFE ("it don't take much to turn a hick into a hooker") give me embarrassment shivers.

[ruprecht]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 4:57pm

Most of the shows of last season gave me embarrassmetn shivers!

[ggersten]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 7:17pm

I saw Nine and Dreamgirls in 1983 within days of each other. I enjoyed both tremendously. And while at the time I thought Nine was the better show - today, I can remember the staging of Dreamgirls and the emotional impact, whereas I can tell you I saw Nine and thought it a wonderful show...and that's about it. (Also saw 42d Street on same trip).

I know recent Tony votes supposedly have been about what show will tour...which fed the shock of Avenue Q winning over Wicked...and if that was evident back in the Dreamgirls/Nine year, Nine would have been perceived as easier to tour.

But, the Tony award has lots of these, considering Gypsy and West Side Story were not Tony award winners. But B'way loves Tommy Tune, as his Will Rogers Follies beat Miss Saigon as well.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 1/7/07 at 11:58pm

>> The core of NINE may be hollow or even rancid, but the surface is dazzlingly dressed to the nines

But that's true of all of Fellini's films, by design and intent, so I'm not surprised that NINE would reflect that as well.

I too saw the original (from standing room) and was blown away by the visuals, so much so that the story seemed almost irrelevant. But again, that too is a trademark of a Fellini film (There's a story to Roma or City of Women? Dont think so, bud.), so the question remains: were Kopit et al merely trying to be true to the conceptual spirit of 8-1/2?

[Link Larkin Wanabe]

Posted: 1/8/07 at 12:29am

All I can say is that right now I am picking a musical to design for my thesis project and Nine is towards the top of my list. I have only recently looked into it and for a designer it is a great project. It takes place in a space that is more of a mindscape that anything. The themes and motifs it deals with are just ripe for the picking as far as visual imagery goes.

Akiva

[jv92]

Posted: 1/20/07 at 10:27pm

I believe Smaxie is Frank Rich is disguise. He too picked a part the ravishing lyrics of Nine. Alright fine, Folies Bergeres makes no sense and develops the plot in no particular way, but Liliane did a helluva good job, didn't she?

On the Bennet and Tune thing- Bennet I believe didn't speak to Tommy Tune again after he lost Best Director. I could be wrong, but I know there was a very large rift between them.
Knowing Michael Bennet (well, I didn't actually know him, but you get the point) he probably did try to "wine and dine"a term often used to describe the way he persuaded people) Tune and the Nederlanders into opening Nine at a later date. Michael Bennet was not the nicest man. In fact, although it was not her intention, Donna McKechnie portrayed him as an absolute monster in her book. Compared to Mr. Bennet, Bob Fosse was a saint.

Posted: 1/21/07 at 1:02am

I saw the original productions of Nine and Dreamgirls during the same week. Nine was stupendous in every way. The only thing I can really recall about Dreamgirls are the moving towers and Jennifer Holliday's "And I Am Telling You That I'm Not Going."
I think thnk Dreamgirls was made into a reasonably interesting film but it's a shame that almost all of the sung-through recitative sequences were dropped. And the new songs can't compare with the original score. Condon should try writing a screenplay for a film versions of a Broadway musical without butchering the score. Of course Rob Marshall has to take a lot of the blame for cutting six musical numbers from Chicago

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 1:09am

"Condon should try writing a screenplay for a film versions of a Broadway musical without butchering the score."

--Yes, just like Joel Schumacher did for PHANTOM. He left the whole score in tact and look how good that turned out!

[jv92]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 10:07am

There was plenty of music in the film of Dreamgirls. The recitive wouldn't have worked. I mean, for theatre lovers it would have, but for a regular audience, I don't know.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 11:15am

The Dreamgirls film had a near impossible task to achieve-be a quality movie musical AND be a commercial prospect. With that goal in mind, I feel that the movie was the best it could be. I mean, for me, I only missed the "Heavy" sung-thru recitative. I was glad that they changed "I Miss You Old Friend", because I hated the way it was originally done.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/21/07 at 11:40am

And Condon did recapture images from Bennet's production. The lyp syced "Heavy" that is screamed over by the Dreams on TV, the lift in "Steppin' to the Bad Side." I thought it honored the show in some very nice ways.