Oklahoma 1955 film Discuss!

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 4:50pm

Okay, Oklahoma is a favorite musical of mine and Will Parker and Curly(to a lesser extent) are some dream roles of mine. I have the stage version with Hugh Jackman and LOVE it, that production was AMAZING and AMAZINGLY TAPED.

Anyways, I have just recently bought the 1955 film version(special edition ofcourse!) and I just wanted to see what everyone thought about.
I thought that Shirley Jones and Gordon McRae were wonderful.
However, I'm not too sure how I feel about Gloria Grahame as Ado Annie. I listened to a clip of the OBC and I don't think that Celeste Holme set the bar too high singing wise, but I'm still not sure how feel about Gloria as Ado Annie, perhaps she will grow on me.

BTW, Carousel is coming in net flick and I CAN'T WAIT. I LOVE this musical, but have NEVER seen any production of it, just love listening to the music, so I hope the movie will be good.
Updated On: 1/30/06 at 04:50 PM

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 6:41pm

I agree on all counts. It's a gorgeous movie to look at, McRae and Jones are perfect, and Grahame's not.

[jimmirae]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 6:46pm

Sat through it once. That was enough. Even Shirley Jones couldn't save that piece in my opinion and it doesn't work for me onstage either. I don't think I'm the "western" or "folksy" type.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 7:37pm

Gloria Grahame was a BIG star in the mid-50s, and she was coming off of an Oscar win for "The Bad and the Beautiful" then.

Here's something kinda cool about her performance in this movie... When they discovered the 70MM (Todd-AO) print about a decade ago, they gave it a big re-release at the Cineramadome in Hollywood. I got to see this film on the big screen with a full audience... and Gloria Grahame's screen "personality" as Ado Annie really comes alive on the big screen. She practically stole the movie with the audience I saw. She was hilarious and got a lot of laughs. But some of her "subtleties" are lost watching it on TV, and without a full (laughing) audience. It changes things a lot.

ALSO what's great about owning this new 2-Disc DVD set. It has both the Todd-AO 70MM version (used as the "road show" print in only the major cities) AND the Cinemescope version (which was shown in most of the theatres across the country, since they didn't have Todd-AO projectors)... and these are two completely different "takes" being used in every shot, because they had to shoot the entire film twice. (The music playback "pre-record" is the same in both versions, so you're not hearing two different singing "takes," but the visuals are not the same.)

It's the equivalent of going to see your favorite show on Broadway, but on a two different nights. The performances are subtly different. And Grahame, in particular, does a better "fresher" job in the 70mm version (which was shot first).

I will warn you that what SHOULD have been the "better" version (the Todd-AO) is actually soft and blurry on the DVD. It really pissed me off! I'm sure they can do better than that. The Cinemescope version is much clearer and easier to watch, but the colors aren't as vivid, and everything has a slight 'brown" tint to it.

So you have to choose between great color and blurry image... or slightly faded brown color and clear image. That's a real bummer.

[Jon]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 7:46pm

Eddie Albert was terribly miscast as Ai Hakim.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 7:48pm

I'll add a few more thoughts. The cinematography is incredible and it really adds impact to have it shot on location with that gorgeous sky filling the screen.

Shirley Jones is so fresh-faced and lovely in her film debut that it's almost surreal.

Having Agnes de Mille's (slightly modified) original choreography on film is priceless... and reason enough for any lover of theatre to see the movie. Her creativity boggles the mind, particularly next to so many modern theatre choreographers. Time to learn and take notes from the master herself.

Gordon MacRae is really cute... but kinda stiff in the part. He sings beautifully though. Charlotte Greenwood is wonderful as Aunt Eller. The part was actually written for her, but she couldn't get out of her film contract long enough to do the show originally.... but when it came time to cast the film, they got her!

[Overthemoon6]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 7:57pm

I thought Shirley Jones was the best part of the movie. Grahame wasn't a very good singer, and her expression during "I Can't Say No" bugged the crap out of me. She just sortof sits there with a blank face. Her acting besides that was good, though.

[jimmirae]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 8:59pm

Does Dame Elizabeth still own Todd-AO? Talk about never needing any money - That is such a great thing to be sole owner of!!

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 1/30/06 at 9:03pm

Thanks for posting! Try my other thread about the 1999 London Stage DVD of Oklahoma!

[jgilmore]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 3:33am

best12bars wrote "The Cinemescope version is much clearer and easier to watch, but the colors aren't as vivid, and everything has a slight 'brown" tint to it."

It might not be the best idea to run out and buy that Special Edition DVD after all. Robert Harris, the man who restored films like "My Fair Lady" and "Vertigo" from oblivion, posted on the Internet a few weeks back that the new Oklahoma Todd-AO DVD transfer was terrible. And the Oklahoma Special Edition is currently one of the front-runners on hometheaterforum.com's Worst DVDs of 2005 poll. Might be wise to keep the old DVD, rent the new one for the special features, and wait a few years till the inevitable high-definition release...

[Smaxie]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 8:14am

And just a quick word about the Carousel movie: it sucks ass.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 9:18am

With the exception of the "Soliloquy" sequence, I second that.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 9:24am

jgilmore---The original DVD of "Oklahoma!" is a non-anamorphic letterboxed transfer, lower resolution, and even worse than the new Todd-AO transfer. As far as it being terrible, I already said so. My reason for saying it's worth buying is to compare the two different "takes" side by side. Probably appeals to most actors out there. Until now, the Cinemescope version of this film wasn't available at all on DVD.

...And as far as Carousel, I agree... the movie sucks. They killed it right from the opening (added) scene with the star catcher. It throws the whole focus of the story out of whack. Such a blunder.

EDIT: My guess as to why the new Todd-AO transfer is "soft," is because they screwed up the Telecine on it. Todd-AO was a very special process, and the film ran through the projectors at 30 frames per second, instead of the standard 24 fps. When the film went through its Telecine conversion to NTSC video (which runs at 29.97, usually with a 3:2 interlace pulldown to adjust the frame rate), something went wrong in the non-standard interpretation here. Going from 30 fps to 29.97 fps might have caused a bit of a blur along the way. They probably started with doing the HD transfer first (which is 23.976 fps), adding even more "voodoo" into the math with this one.

At first I thought the color negatives might be misaligned, but I don't think that's reason for the softening.

Regardless of the reason, somebody "goofed" big-time.

Updated On: 1/31/06 at 09:24 AM

[kyguy78]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 10:01am

Oklahoma was the first movie musical besides "Grease" that I watched as a kid. I was in junior high when my eventual high school did a production of "Oklahoma," but they didn't have enough guys. They went to the middle school to recruit and I have never been able to read music, so I rented the movie so I could learn the songs.

I just remember thinking how beautiful Shirley Jones was and how I could never hear anyone else in that role except for her. I have seen several productions of Oklahoma, but the Laurie's are always trying to live up to Shirley Jones' perfect version. I also thought the chemistry between her and Gordon McRae was excellent as well!

[bschneid76]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 11:08am

I feel that the only problem with the film version was the length as it begins to drag, but it is helped by spirited numbers such as the big barn dance and the dream ballet which is incredible. I love the opening credits with the overture. I miss films with overtures, they truly set the mood for the picture. The performances are all top notch. Gloria Grahmn i think was hilarious as Ado Annie, sure a different take on the character but overall truly enjoyable. Gordon McCrae was terrific and his voice is lovely. Shirley Jones was also terrific with the right texture of the part. I wasn't to thrilled with Rod Steiger but he was a passable Jud.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 12:16pm

Really you think the old version is better than the Special Edition? So far no problems from me.

[sharon1]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 12:43pm

I love the movie. That being said. I have heard Alfred Drake, John Raitt, and Gordon MacRae sing all of Curly's songs. I have also seen London's most recent version on video. I think the worst Curly was Hugh Jackman. Can't sing the songs with that nasally sound he makes. Sorry HJ fans. I don't think he is the best Curly. And I did not think highly of the London production. I know I am in a minority. Not crazy about Patrick Wilson either.

[Jon]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 3:19pm

I think Drake and Raitt's recordings sound a little too operatic or "stagey" - their diction is too precise as they try to "project", not really understanding how to modify their styles for a recording studio. Gordon McCrae, thanks to film recording technology, sounds the most natural.

[Mamie]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 3:40pm

Let me throw in my 2 cents for Gene Nelson. I always enjoyed watching his performances in those old films with Doris Day and Gordon MacRae, but with this show I fell in love. No other "Will Parker" has come close - particularly in "Everything's Up to Date in Kansas City".

[lildogs]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 3:46pm

I enjoy the film and I think Shirley defines the character. Charlotte Greenwood is okay, but I would have loved to have seen Mary Wickes play Aunt Eller--she'd been making movies forever even in 1955! :) I think Gordon is kinda sexy too and I think Steiger is fine as Judd. Gloria is fine, but I prefer her as a femme fatale. And you can see Palmer Cortlandt from AMC play Dream Curley! His name escapes me...

The cinematography is great and the dream sequence is preserved forever. A little long, yes, but it's R&H, folks--we're going to be here a while...

[inlovewithjerryherman]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 4:41pm

Wow lots of appreciation for Shirley Jones...

I think she's alright, I think of Laurey as a more level-headed, independent woman and Jones doesn't come off that way at all. But vocally, she's terrific. MacRae is perfect, and I love Gloria Grahame as Ado Annie. In fact, everyone is very well cast, minus Eddie Albert, but he makes it work.

The ballet sequence is very exciting and all of the DeMille choreography is just spectacular.

Bad points? The "Many a New Day" dance DRAGS like none other. Dropping "Lonely Room", my favorite song, is also upsetting.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 5:59pm

Yeah, I was upset to learn that "Lonely Room" was cut, but I'm sure that Rob Steiger wouldn't have done it justice. I also wished the other song "It's a Scandel" was left in the song too. The Special Edition DVD booklet say they had to take them out for time.

[Timmerbo]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 6:14pm

Why are you sure that Rod Steiger wouldn't have done Lonely Room justice? I can't believe they never recorded him singing it! It's not a rangey song that's difficult to sing from any technical standpoint, and from the bit that he sang in 'Poor Jud is Daid' he seemed to have a good, if unique-sounding, voice.

[Demitri2]

Posted: 1/31/06 at 6:21pm

"Oklahoma" is a strange bird. It took me years to finally sit through the movie from the fifties and I find it just okay. I didn't particularly care for the Hugh Jackman DVD and had no desire to see the Broadway version a few years ago due to the tepid reviews. The first time I saw the show as a kid was at the old City Center with the perfect Laurie in Susan Watson (I believe the ONLY stage Laurie to actually sing and dance the part), perfect casting of Ado Annie with Karen Morrow in the role and even John Davidson was enjoyable in the male lead. In the eighties there was a wonderful revival version with Laurence Guittard, Christine Andreas and Christine Ebersole who was hilarious as Ado. The cast was young, fresh and enthusiastic and the direction fast paced and sincere. Like "Carousel", both these shows seem to be totally dependent on the exhuberance of the cast and having a competent director at the helm otherwise the shows can easily seem dated and out of place today. I'm looking forward to how "South Pacific" will be treated in its forthcoming revival.

[StageManager2]

Posted: 2/1/06 at 8:03pm

I didn't like this movie at all! (I did enjoy the Hugj Jackman version, which inspired me to watch this one.) Everything about it turned me off. During "THE SURREY WITH THE FRINGE ON TOP NUMBER" I didn't like how they turned it into a sort of dream sequence. They should've just sang it as is and let the audience imagine the surrey. Also, the ballet sequence was atrocious! I hated, hated, HATED the Laurie and Curly dance doubles. They looked nothing like the principal actors -- it totally took me out of the story.