Phantom celebrates it's 7000 Performance!- Page 4

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 10:29pm

You really just want trite little teenybopper discussions with the occasional infusion of political diatribe when and where you see fit, huh, Broadwayguy? Nobody said people shouldn't like what they like. However, when somebody calls Phantom of the Opera an "established masterpiece" and refuses to explain by whom, while at the same time putting down Shakespeare... well, I take umbrage. Ya don't wanna read the umbrage, move on Kelly. Get over it.

And you Broadwayguy, heal. Can I get an amen to THAT?

And, of course, bless your little heart, DofB5.

Updated On: 8/15/03 at 10:29 PM

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 10:31pm

i don't mean that we should have 'teenybopper' discussions and have to agreeon everything, Namo. I just think that sometimes, people get a bit carried away.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 10:35pm

And when it's you, it's fine. Meanwhile, you act like you're above the fray when it isn't.

Yeah, I think Phantom of the Opera is junk food. And not even high end junk food. More like Jack in the Box before they worked out the e-coli problem junk food. This is an informed opinion, having seen the show when it was brand new.

But if people want junk food and e-coli sandwiches, god love em. Just don't tell me it's gourmet and don't, EVER say it holds a special effect underground lair candle to the Bard of Avon.

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 10:38pm

Whatever, namo. Just leave me alone.

I mean they get carried away with how much they hate a show or love a show and just become brutal about those views sometimes.

get over yourself,
Bg2

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 10:42pm

Look, BG, a bland and undistinguishable twinkie chorus boy just went by. Go get him, boy, fetch!

[ChristineDaae]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 11:24pm

KELLY-

I couldn't agree with you more!!

About 5 of you are giving me reasons why I shouldn't like Phantom, No matter what you say your not changing my mind about the show...

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 11:25pm

I do NOT like BLAND, UNDISTINGUISHABL, chorus boys.

Dirty old man.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 11:37pm

The proof is in the postings. There goes another one! FETCH BOY!

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 11:39pm

too bad Namo, I probably already slept with that one. :/


::rolls eyes::

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/15/03 at 11:40pm

I'm sure you did. In your mind.

[etoile]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 2:08am

Oh, Christine, did I miss something? I've read people say it's "great" if you like Phantom. They just don't consider it "great" and wonder how some people arrive at the adjectives and adverbs they choose.

Yes Phantom has been around for years. And I suspect it survives primarily on the Euro and the Yen.

But I really have to take issue with someone that makes an assertion that it's been demonstrated that forcing great works has lead to the downfall of our education system, literacy, and culture. One would think a good teacher possess the ability to raise the level of all three. If classic works are found to be boring to students then isn't that more reflective of their teacher than of the works? A true teacher of theater has the skills to draw out the universal themes of these great works and bring them to life. How can one not find relevence for todays youth in works such as LYSISTRATA, OTHELLO, or A DOLL HOUSE? Should I go on?

Have you ever read a work such as THE MISER and wished that you were so proficient in French so not to miss one nuance of what Moliere intended? A good teacher cultivates that yearning. And a good teacher should certainly have the ability to showcase the genius that was Shakespeare.

Updated On: 8/16/03 at 02:08 AM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:54am

Christine, why are you so offended when someone presents a pont of view that differs with yours? Are you so insecure that you can only surround yourself with people who fully agree with you?
That's terribly sad, but so characteristic of people yoour age.

Regardless of what you think, this thread has become a genuine discussion of IDEAS, and is far more provoking than some of the sillier ones (ex: "Who is the best understudy of Broadway?)

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:44am

Folks, I've been reading through this thread this morning, it never really interested me until now. Anyhow some observations, purely my opinion...

Each of us are entitled to like or to dislike a show for whatever reasons we deem support our view. No one is "right" we're just different on that point.

Each of us are at different points in our life and despite differences have one thing in common, a love of theatre.

Most of us accept that fact that it's only a show, and not a life-threatening topic on which not to agree.

Some of us try to educate those who may not have a broad experience to musical theatre that musicals of substance and wit and intelligence existed long before musical marketing.

Some of us appear to believe that the musical theater began with CATS or with POTO, even MILLIE, never to have existed before, and that sheer numbers translate into greatness.

A few of us can make absurd pompous statements.

A few of us can be mean-spirited and be deliberately cruel to one another.

My bottom-line opinion, papaphrasing Tennessee: deliberate cruely is unexcuseable.

Oh, and POTO? First let me say that I would love to have earned the revenues it has generated for ALW. The show itself, in my humble opinion, rises no higher than something seen at a theme park. I am saddened for the history of the American musical and all the exceptionally talented artists who came bfore, and saddend for all those to come in the future who will have to struggle even more to set their own standards, if today POTO is actually held as a standard for future musicals to attain.

Yours for a better Broadway!

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:46am

Isn't the whole point of a theater discussion board to discuss? Why should we move on. This is one of the more interesting threads on here. Teacheroftheater...people aren't attacking you..just asking you to explain your opinion to move along the discussion...which is why we are here isn't it? I don't understand why people get so sensitive on here.
As for what I think...Phantom was the first broadway show that I saw and I loved it at the time. I have come to realize it isn't great or a masterpiece. In fact, when I went to see it again I wasn't as dazzled by the set design (I knew what was coming) and was able to concentrate on the repetive music and lack of story. I disagree with teacheroftheater who says how "exciting" the show is. For me the musical, especially the first act, is a complete and utter bore, with an occasinal good song or interesting special effect. Maybe I should have only seen it once.
And Namo...I LOVE McDonald's french fries and would argue that they are great cuisine.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 10:55am

Erik, even Julia Child loves McDonalds' french fries. But I doubt she would call them great cuisine! That was my point. People love what they love and should feel free to do just that. But don't try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Don't tinkle on my leg and tell me its raining. And last but certainly not least, don't tell me POTO is an established masterpiece (I ask again: "Established BY WHOM???") while making negative references to Shakespeare!

I agree with what you say Bulldog. The problem, however, is that in the real world, there are not cut and dried boundaries about what is discussion, what is elaboration, what is a challenge in an effort to get somebody to clarify their assertions, and meanness and cruelty. It does seem as if the majority of people who post here really are interested in nice pronouncement after nice pronouncement after nice pronouncement with no questions, comments or challenges that could in any way be interpreted as "not nice," or "mean," or "deliberate cruelty." Of course, they usually say that a post that questions their pronouncements are any number of those things only because they can't back up what they say.

Meanwhile, many of these same people who feel "bashed" or "attacked" are very often people who just say the meanest, nastiest things about performers and their nice little friends LOL and everybody has a grand old time. I've asked before, and I will ask again: if a person feels comfortable trashing others, do they actually have a right to cry foul when somebody challenges what they say? I always go back to Sondheim when the whining about people being "not nice" around here intensifies: "Nice is different than good."

Incidentally, when she was still an East Coaster, I used to run into Julia Child at the local supermarket. (We lived in the same neighborhood, but I was on the wrong side of the tracks). I used to peek at the contents of her cart, in the hopes of finding something scandalous. Like maybe the peanut butter and jelly that comes in the same jar.

[ChristineDaae]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 2:03pm

You know what Dollypop,

I'm not insecure- I don't know what your talking about. I'm sick of your remarks. PJ was right about- your probably an old sad man. Did I ever laugh at you because you like Hello, Dolly? I don't have a problem with everyone elses point of view but when I made a post about how Phantom celebrates it's 7000 perf. You come along and give me ten reasons why it stinks- that had nothing to do with the topic. I think your the insecure one.

and etoile- where did you come from? You guys are telling me I should see more shows and forget about Phantom, why would you want me to do that? Why do people compare a fast food place to a Broadway show?

I like many Broadway shows but Phantom of the Opera is my favorite!!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 2:52pm

Christine, I repeat--Why are you so defensive? You are very insecure and take it out on others. You've built a pretty little world for herself and anyone who presents a differing view poses a threat to you. You also indicate that you are delusional.

It might be very beneficial if you sought professional help. You have too much to offer to hold such insular views. A good psychologist might help you to put the world into a healthy perspective.

Let me know how things go.

Uncle Dollypop

[tomooseone]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 6:48pm

But POTO isnt an "American" musical - its a worldwide one and very much celebrated - plus it started here right in sunny England. LOL.

Tom

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 7:56pm

I think the point that most people are missing is that the most important thing about a play/movie/book is that the person ENJOY it.

Just because something is a classic, doesn’t make it that great to all people. I like Shakespear but I also like POTO. Each has their positive and negative points. If the mood moves you to go see a “heavy” play then so be it but there is no shame in finding equal enjoyment from POTO.

I like POTO because it makes me feel good. Can you think of a better reason to go see a play/musical? Can you argue that I would find more pleasure in watching something else? I think not because simply put, you are not me and you can not answer for me. It would seem that there are a lot of people who feel the same way about POTO. The ticket sales would seem to support that.

D

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:05pm

THE MUSIC MAN and ANNIE aren't "heavy", but they are created with great skill and craftsmanship. POTO uses gaudy sets and elaborate costumes as a Band-Aid to cover its gaping wounds.

[tomooseone]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:08pm

Hello guys!

Why do you insist on topping any positive comments with negative on top of negative comments. Could I make one plea please that people lighten up a bit - why do you have to be gloomy?

Tom

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:13pm

Gloomy? We're talking about a musical that deals with a hideously deformed man and where the integral scenes take place in a crypt.

This isn't the type of material that inspires Shel Silverstein's poetry.

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:15pm

I would tend to agree with you DofB5. If members of the audience enjoy themselves that is an important element. POTO obviously hits that mark for thousands of people. Does it challenge them to stretch themselves individually? That's debatable. Has it created an economics of theatre which drives away shows that display higher levels of creativity? Absolutely, in my book.

On another point. There is displayed a lack of maturity on these boards, which isn't suprising I suppose. The cruel things some posters say to one another merely to defend themselves against the fact that someone has disagreed with them or challenged their own analysis. I don't mean biting comments made in jest. I am referring to several comments in this thread that are hateful and even cruel. Life is too short folks to spend time arguing that way over a show.

Yours for a more courteous Broadway!

[tomooseone]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:16pm

There you go again! Prooves my point - you have been either gloomy, negative, incredibly sarcastic and unbearable. This thread started out so innocently congratulating Phantom and then you turned it into an argument. I think we can safely say that this thread is no longer a discussion.

Tom

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:27pm

On the contrary, this is definitely a good discussion. Every facet of POTO has been examined. Some of the arguements have been persuasive, others have been lame. It would take an objective voice to peruse this thread and come up with which arguement was strongest.

I still contend that the gothic elements of the plot wouldn't inspire anyone to hum the tunes from LITTLE MARY SUNSHINE.