Phantom celebrates it's 7000 Performance!- Page 5

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 8:40pm

"Has it created an economics of theater which drives away shows that display higher levels of creativity?"

I disagree with you point here, Bulldog. How can POTO have an effect on "higher levels of creativity"? If a story is good, I'm sure that people will come to see it. You can't blame one plays success for anothers failure. Each must stand on it's own two feet, so to speak.

I do believe there is a bit to much reliance of special effects now days. The challenge for todays playwrights should be to create a story that uses as little of them as possible but so involves the audience that it keeps them coming back for more. This was done in the past before there were special effects, I don't imagine it would be that hard to go back to that kind of thinking.

I do agree that despite some rude posts, this is a very good discussion.

D Updated On: 8/17/03 at 08:40 PM

[Vicky Vic]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:12pm

I couldn't just miss out this Phantom discussion, first I'd like to say hi to my friends here! You know who you are lol.

Look obviously I have read some of the messages here and thanks to lensman55 for clearing out the lil confusion. I just wanted to say that don't judge a show if you are a blur or confuse about it.

If you don't even know why Phantom is deformed and about why they have to cover their eyes, I suggest you to understand first then judge. What I am saying is that I respect your opinions here and is just sad to see there are actually people who dislike phantom here. I had seen the show ten times in a year (I know not much.. but im broke ^__^; and I absolutely love the story and music there.

Just Please understand the show fully first and judge.
If this show is really bad as you all say, why is it at the 16th year on bway? You tell me why...


If Sarah Brightman is that bad, I dont' know why ALW actually wrote the songs for her..

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:22pm

"If Sarah Brightman is that bad, I don’t' know why ALW actually wrote the songs for her.."

Well, to be honest on that point, I believe ALW was either married to her at the time or courting her. Not 100% sure which is correct. When your wife/girlfriend/fiancé is a singer and your a composer, it would be odd NOT to write something for her. IMHO. Didn't the story go that he promised to make her an international star. It kinda backfired on him because it worked for Mr. C but not exactly as planned for her.

D

[Vicky Vic]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:30pm

hmm I believed they were married at that time ...

but then Sarah Brightman is an international star because of Phantom though...

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:34pm

But she didn't win all the awards that Mr. C did. I really don't want to go there, it will start a major war.

D

[jo]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:34pm

Noteworthy though that Sarah has become a best-selling artist in America now -- especially with her newfound voice and style.

Although I prefer her earlier voice -- I have some of her early recordings ( folk songs, Requiem, ALW music) and she has recorded some very lovely songs. Her musical background is interesting -- rock band, musical theatre ( she was in the original production of CATS and later on PHANTOM and ASPECTS) , a little of opera, and now even a little of Eastern music in her repertoire.

jo

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:37pm

I think the discussion here has been wonderful. I will not directly, or usually even indirectly, respond or go further on a thread where I feel I have, or someone else has, been attacked or the object of unnecessary cruelty.

I love being here with other theaterlovers. I wish two or three people on this board would seriously reconsider the things they say and how they say them.

P.S.

I strongly suspect the works of Shakespeare and The Phantom of The Opera will both be around for future generations to enjoy or dislike and study and debate. Perhaps this is a true sign of greatness in theater.

[Vicky Vic]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:40pm

I just want to ask if there are any phantom phans living in NYC ... Thank you!

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 9:46pm

No doubt,they will, TOT. I also agree with you about some people. No names.

Jo--do you have Harem? What do you think of it? I do and I like it for the most part.

Vicky--I hope I didn't scare you off the topic.

D Updated On: 8/16/03 at 09:46 PM

[ChristineDaae]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 11:42pm

Hey Vicky! How are you?


No Dollypop, it's very clear that you need the professional help. Many people on this message board would probably agree with me. I dont have a problem with anyone but you on this board. You constantly make-fun of me. I don't know, is it because I like POTO?
Then you have the nerve to say I'M insecure and I'M delusional? I didn't even know who you were till this discussion and you come out and give me these names.

Could you stop the mean remarks being said about me on this board? Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of them. I tried ending this Phantom discussion a couple posts ago but you keep coming out with things to say. Goes to show you whos the insecure & desusional one.

[KarmineFan]

Posted: 8/16/03 at 11:57pm

I've been reading some of the posts here and a couple of you are harsh on ChristineDaae!! I'm a good friend of hers and shes really a nice person.

The things being said on this topic are ridiculous!!! Updated On: 8/16/03 at 11:57 PM

[etoile]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 3:26am

CD, where did I come from? Well, being a mere mortal I came from my mother's womb, but I never thought I would need to discuss that here. What's the relevence of THAT question? Because I've never exchanged messages with you in the past I'm not permitted to join this thread? Or perhaps I just don't understand the question.

But I really must ask, has reading comprehension become a lost skill? Why would you write to me, "You guys telling me I should see more shows and forget Phantom"? After re-reading the five pages to this thread I've yet to see where anyone, especially moi, has told you this. Please show to me, quote to me, where you've read this. And I don't mean paraphrasing what you interpet someone wrote.

Just like I would love for those throwing around the words "gloomy" and "cruelity" to show specific examples that relate to the definition of these words.

Theater is the art of language where words are choosen for their precise meaning.

And, DofB5, no one has stated that classics are or should be great to all people. My contention is that when someone, like TOT, makes an unsubstantial comment that the teaching of "great works" has lead to a downward spiral in education, culture and western civilization, well, I think that type of comment would give a thinking person reason to pause.

[lensman55]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:16am

>Christine, why are you so offended when someone presents a >pont of view that differs with yours? Are you so insecure that >you can only surround yourself with people who fully agree >with you?
>That's terribly sad, but so characteristic of people yoour age.


A "point of view" is one thing, but some people seem to have a holy war going against POTO! They can't stand the fact that it's still running after all this time so they have to come up with the nastiest insults to put the musical down!

[lensman55]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:21am

>THE MUSIC MAN and ANNIE aren't "heavy", but they are created >with great skill and craftsmanship. POTO uses gaudy sets and >elaborate costumes as a Band-Aid to cover its gaping wounds.

I have always [hated] THE MUSIC MAN! My idea of one song carrying no story! The Simpsons did it better with their monorail episode!

I liked ANNIE, but they didn't really do their research. They claimed they were writing the "origin" of Little Orphan Annie and Daddy Warbucks and said the comic never went into how they met. I saw a book of Little Orphan Annie and the first story had her meeting the Warbucks family and stopping a phony psychic who was bilking Mrs. Warbucks out of her husband's fortune! (Didn't finish the book, don't know what happened to "Mrs. Warbucks!"

[lensman55]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:23am

>Christine, I repeat--Why are you so defensive? You are very >insecure and take it out on others.

Someone should do a search here of "dollypop" and take note as to your reaction whenever anyone defends the movie of "Hello Dolly" or Ms. Streisand's performance if they want to see [true] insecurity!

[lensman55]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:25am

>>"If Sarah Brightman is that bad, I don’t' know why ALW >>actually wrote the songs for her.."

>Well, to be honest on that point, I believe ALW was either >married to her at the time or courting her.

Married to. And I'll make fun of her "deer in the headlights" expression, but the woman could sing!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:40am

I think you're really missing two things, lensman. One is that there is an edit function so you can add to your messages, no need to post after yourself multiple times. And the other is that, although the thread is about Phantom of the Opera, it has evolved in such a way as it's not really ABOUT Phantom of the Opera. That's the thing about discussion boards. The discussions change and evolve. If you read the thread, most people have gone out of their way to say, "If you like it, great!" I've done that more than once.

What you like is all a matter of taste and exposure. But it does seem as if some people go see a show again and again and again and they aren't getting exposed to anything new. And their taste reflects that.

If you have a great time at Phantom, terrific! If I had invested as much money as some fans do for the same show, I'd probably convince myself that not only was it great time, but it was a great work. But that ain't necessarily so.

And for me, personally, the fact that the hype made the '80s mega-musicals these juggernauts that overtook the all-time longest running show records is annoying. Once, in my lifetime, the longest running musical of all-time on Broadway was a really great show, A Chorus Line. It was an original work, not based on a story in the public domain (Phantom, Les Miz). Chorus Line's "special effects," as a matter of fact its entire design, amounted to a white stripe on the stage and a panel of revolving mirrors. That's it. In no way did it resemble an elaborate theme park ride.

It was up to the actors to sing and dance and tell their stories, and it was the rare instance of a fairly substantial work connecting with a large audience, who could relate to this specific story. That, to me, is a sign of great work.

I chimed in because someone intimated that Les Miz had a long run because of hype and POTO's long run was somehow not because of the very same thing. But the point I have most wanted to make is that in these days of mega-hype, using the argument "How can the show be bad if it has run 16 years?" just doesn't hold water. Go back and read the thread, people have answered that. Hype. Familiarity (at this point POTO's a franchise like Burger King). And the odd tendency in our culture to decide that to prove we love a show, we have to keep going back to it again and again.

I would urge the people who have the kind of money to see POTO ten, 20 or 30 times and have plans to see it again, to take that money and take a chance on something new. Once. I know it will cause you anxiety to go to something that you haven't heard of like you had heard of POTO (that's the hype), but expand your horizons, support new art, find out how magic can happen without bombastic effects and theme park displays.

P.S. Etoile hit the nail so squarely on the head for me with the line: "Theater is the art of language where words are choosen for their precise meaning."

It strikes me as LOLable when people say, "Why should I take the time to write something different," or "It's not how you say it but the sincerity behind it." It just doesn't make sense tho, since every time discussions get juicy on here people say "Hey! This is a board about theater lovers and we should be talking about theater." Why haven't these theater lovers been inspired to investigate and use language in more artful ways? Is theater, as an art form, dying if it can't connect in any way other than as a place for people to find every single show amazing and to join the cults of the personalities on stage? WHAT ABOUT THE ART?

Updated On: 8/17/03 at 10:40 AM

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 11:43am

Etoile,

I read what TOT said and took that to be his own opinion not the gospel and I happen, to a certain point, agree with him but for other reasons. I won’t go into them here as this is a theater board, not a board on teaching.

“Theater is the art of language where words are chosen for their precise meaning.”

BTW I corrected your spelling of “Choosen” to chosen but let’s not split hairs. I knew what you meant.

The point being a play takes many months, if not years to be written so one would hope that every word WOULD be chosen for their precise meaning. For the playwright, words are their business.

Alas, I do not have the funds to hire such a person to write for me when I post something on this board–not the mention the time it would take to formulate the perfect answer. Whatever point I would care to make would be long past worth making as the thread would be so far down the list it would be silly to answer. My only choice is to do the best I can.

Cheers!

D

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 11:48am

"Whatever point I would care to make would be long past worth making as the thread would be so far down the list it would be silly to answer."

Would it? Really? And like everything else, isn't it true that the more you try to do something, the better you get at it and your speed increases? Isn't it worth taking the time? Don't threads that are buried move back up when somebody adds something to it? And when they do, isn't it valuable to have something well thought out and articulate be the reason it has moved back up?

Yours for a more articulate Broadwayworld, in tribute to those theater artists we love and theater writers who have inspired us.

FindingNamo

[DofB5]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 12:18pm

So your saying this should be the "Post of the month" board? I hardly think so.

There's fantasy and then there's reality but if your willing to pony up the money to get a writer for me, I’ll give it a go.

D

[ChristineDaae]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 1:04pm

etoile:

Your more than welcome to join this thread. I only asked "where you came from" because you were taking sides with Dollypop and hes making sarcastic and mean remarks about me.

[lensman55]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 6:28pm

>I think you're really missing two things, lensman. One is that >there is an edit function so you can add to your messages, no >need to post after yourself multiple times.

I'm finding different posts that have things I want to respond to. Sorry if it's annoying!

I've only seen POTO the once, I don't have that kind of money.
(I used to, I saw Beatlemania several times and managed to catch "Day In Hollywood, Night in the Ukraine" several times before it was closed. "Peter Pan" as well.)

There's a difference between; "Try and open yourself up to other productions." and "Phantom is crap and it's only still running because of the hype!" It's not that fine a line.

Updated On: 8/17/03 at 06:28 PM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 9:36pm

Oh Christine, your last post proved the veracity of the adage: "Children should be seen and not heard".

[Vicky Vic]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 10:57pm

This is only a discussion, shouldn't be insulting each other.

ChristineDaae, just ignored those comments, not true anyway. Please don't get upset because of this..

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/17/03 at 11:16pm

Better still, dear Christine,

Learn to take criticism and glean something from it. You'll ultimately become a better person.

BTW: I defend TWHM and the Goddess Carol because I am chivalrous gentleman and won't allow disparaging remarks to either. I fight unto death defending either one. It's called "chivalry". You should become aquainted with it. it comes along with devotion.