Riedel/Raul--I guess I'll get over it- Page 2

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 7:23pm

Blaxx beat me to it.

As brilliant as he is and as lucky as any director would be to have him, I don't think he's "pretty" enough for the Hollywood film and television scene. And I'm selfish; I want him on stage where he belongs. I think so much of his brilliance is in his theatricality. He's great on camera, and makes the transition well (check out Find Me Guilty), but it's just not the same.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 7:26pm

I'm selfish too and don't want to lose him!

I also find that for especially TV work, they're not always looking for "pretty." The older leading men often are, as I described Raul, "quirky attractive." I think he could probably do quite well.

[SamIAm]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 8:45pm

My guess is that IF Sondheim said what he was purported to say (and that is always in question when dealing with Riedel), he said it in jest, hoping to lighten the moment.

There has been press to indicate that Raul did not go to the after party for the Company cast because he was upset about not winning. I do not know that to be true, but if it IS true, that is unprofessional and sour grapes. If you are in this business, you need to have your head on straight and accept rejection and the loss of awards. There are always worthy people who are not even nominated and people who do not win. Unfortunately, only one person can win and Raul didn't get the award this time.

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 9:30pm

"Unprofessional and sour grapes" - how about "I don't want my loss to diminish the good spiritis at the celebration of COMPANY's win?" If it was me, I would not want bunches of people feeling that they had to spend the party commiserating with me. His absence could just as well have been unselfish. He's an actor, not an elected official whose presence is mandatory. Give the guy a break, OK?

ETA: Em has it right - IF he in fact was absent.

Updated On: 6/16/07 at 09:30 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 9:33pm

I think in an ideal world, it would have been great if he felt he could go and celebrate with the rest of the cast, because that best revival win was his, too. Hell, I'd go so far as to say that its largely BECAUSE of him. It's not as though his castmates won something that lost, or that they won something separate of him, you know? But, I guess I understand why he would have skipped it, if in fact he did.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 9:55pm

Hmm. I knew Sondheim still regretted not renegotiating royalties with Bernstein as Sondheim being the sole writer of the lyrics, but not about the Tony. Doesn't he have enough from the 70s and 80s?!

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 9:57pm

I think one would assume that it's not about the number of Tonys, but that West Side Story, a provocative, socially significant show lost to The Music Man, of all things.

Updated On: 6/16/07 at 09:57 PM

[SDav 10495]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 10:59pm

Does anyone have a picture of Raul during that loss? I remember watching it on TV going, "Wow! Talk about lack of subtlety."

I second this...this was one of the moments of the awards that I heard but did not actually see and, since I've been steering clear of the angry Raul threads, I had no idea "the face" even happened. Picture or video please?

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:25pm

Tommytwopiece (love that name) says "he has become enough of a box office draw now (at lest in the Theatre World)
Please back that up with proof.
And "if" he did not go to the After TONY party, that is really being a baby, and a slap in the face to his fellow cast members.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:29pm

The operative words are in the quote that you, as it happens, could not even copy and paste correctly. He says he's become a box office draw IN THE THEATER WORLD. If you don't think that's true, you clearly don't understand what he means, which is that people who know the theater scene know Raul's work. That's different than calling him a box office draw as a household name or something. Why is everything so hard for you? Or, rather, I suppose it's just another case of the way you continue to believe that things you don't LIKE are simply not true. Man, I wish I could invent my own reality. Life must be so blissful.

You are exhausting, and it is beyond me how basic reading comprehension could possibly be so difficult.

Updated On: 6/16/07 at 11:29 PM

[B3TA07]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:38pm

What the hell do you guys have against The Music Man?!

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:45pm

I understood it perfectly.
The term "box office draw" means selling tickets on his name alone and that is not a justified statement.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:50pm

Do you TRY to be so dense? You clearly did NOT understand because you are glossing over the operative words of the statement. Yes, that's what it means, but it doesn't automatically refer to the entire world. BCR modified it by saying that he meant it in terms of the theater world. What it means IS arguably true within the theater community; he's a recognizable name within a certain demographic, and you can't argue that that's untrue just because you wish it weren't.

Updated On: 6/16/07 at 11:50 PM

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 6/16/07 at 11:51pm

being a box office draw in the THEATRE WORLD is absolutelty a justified statement. It means that people who KNOW about theatre will go to see a show SOLELY for his presence. The statement that Esparza is a BO draw in the theatre community was made by someone who's a PART of the theatre community, and absolutely knows more about it than you.

I suppose you want receipts to prove the veracity of this statement. But fact is, people who know theatre, know Raul Esparza, and will absolutely go see him in practically any show.

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 12:58am

He must be some sort of draw because he's got top billing. And he's all over the marquee.

Anyways, I searched on here for the old Riedel disputes with Raul and I can't find anything, so if anyone can help a brotha out and PM me a link or something, I'd love to catch up to the convo already in progress.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 8:11am

I'm as big a Raul fan as anyone, but if he's such a "box office draw" why is his show closing in 7 months at a loss?

[Weez]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 8:19am

Because he's a box office draw in the theatre world for theatre fans. We're kind of a minority, and there aren't enough of us with enough money and time or even inclination to go and see 'Company' a million times each. :P

Updated On: 6/17/07 at 08:19 AM

[StageFan2]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 8:33am

"I'm as big a Raul fan as anyone, but if he's such a "box office draw" why is his show closing in 7 months at a loss?"

Because not even the biggest name or most talented person can save a less than mediocore production IMO.

[D2]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 8:42am

And if he snubbed the After Tony Party, he won't be such a draw in the theater community much longer either.

Sorry, Kean, I don't buy your reasoning about his not attending. "I don't want to be a drag on the rest of the party" is a rationalization and not indicative of the real reason, which unfortunately does come down to "poor me."

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 8:53am

Right, a less than mediocre production that got some of the biggest raves of the season.

IMO, the producers counted too much on Doyle, Raul, and the show being a draw and, as has been stated, put $0 into advertising.

I guess you're right weez. I don't have the money to keep the show afloat, but did my best to convince everyone I know that it was not to be missed.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:05am

A show needs draw within a MUCH wider demographic than just the theater community to stay open. Hence the need for tourists, which is why crap like Mamma Mia! runs forever and a show like this can't survive a year. A show like this, without spectacle and the other things that generally make people go "wow, I wanna see that!" would've needed a killer ad campaign, and a HUGE name to get tourists in, probably. The concept and whatever elese are interesting to theater people, but let's face it, this isn't at the top of the rest of the world's list.

Updated On: 6/17/07 at 10:05 AM

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:22am

A bow office draw means the person brings people and revenue to the box office promoting good business. Company is closing beacause of poor ticket sales .Do the math. Furthermore,If you're the headliner of a show,Above the title,you have a responsibility to your cast and company to make an obligatory appearance at your Tony cast party. REGARDLESS of the situation,he should have shown, I hope this is rumor and not true. Don't mistake fan favorite with box office draw: BIG difference.

[Brave Sir Robin2]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:29am

where's the riedel link?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:30am

Poor ticket sales don't mean his name wasn't bringing people in. It means he wasn't ENOUGH to bring ENOUGH people in to keep the show open. Being that he has an established, loyal fanbase ALONE makes it impossible to deny that he is some sort of draw, not to mention the people who aren't necessarily "I see him in everything" fans, but who do know his name and saw Company because of him. I'm not mistaking it for the same thing; I know for a FACT that there are people who don't consider themselves necessarily fans of his that went to see this show because of him. There are people like that who have posted on this board. I'm sorry, but you're not only a draw if you cause the show to sell out -- you're just not a big enough one. He's not famous enough to have carried this show on his shoulders, but he did get people in. That shouldn't be so hard to understand, because "box office draw" is quantifiable, not rigidly defined.

Good lord, it's far too early for this. Sometimes I feel as though BWW needs a dictionary.

Updated On: 6/17/07 at 10:30 AM

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:35am

...that means he's not a box office draw. People forget this is a business.His Name above the title ,despite glowing reviews, did not gnerate amazing BUSINESS. I think he's a wonderful actor/singer. Box office DRAW: NO. an excellent performer:YES. Why people take this so personally is beyond me.