Riedel/Raul--I guess I'll get over it- Page 3

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:48am

Ugh, my post disappeared.

I'm not taking it personally. I'm disagreeing with you. Another confusion difference, apparently. Tossing that in to discount my argument simply because I disagree is just an easy out, because as soon as someone "takes something too personally," it's invalid. I'm irritated by the assumption that there's only one kind of box office draw, and that someone can only be one if they can transcend all barriers that way. It's not about someone's capability to sell out a show; it's about the ability of a name to bring people in. You can certainly bring people in without keeping a show open. I'm certainly not saying that if you bring in 10% of the audience, you're suddenly a "draw," but just think about it. If you can be a box office draw, as BCR said, within the theater community, then you can do that on a certain level and not on another: you can be in one sense, and not to the entire world, like a major celebrity. I'm not sure what doesn't make sense about that.

Updated On: 6/17/07 at 10:48 AM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:48am

Here is a question

Next time he is nominated , does Raul show up?

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:49am

Only if he thinks he'll win.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:50am

He was thought to be a lock with Company so that arguement or point of view is no longer valid

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:51am

So no performer in a flop can be considered a box office draw? Julianne Moore? Nope, sorry, Vertical Mile didn't break even. Hey, why limit it to performers? Sondheim can't be a box office draw- his shows always close fast. ALW's name isn't a box office draw either, Woman in White was a total flop. The only people that qualify as box office draws by your definition would be the actors whose only Broadway appearances have been in Cats, Phantom, Les Mis, and the like. Everyone else- even the biggest Broadway stars- aren't box office draws because they dared appear in a show that didn't have AMAZING business. That makes total sense.

Updated On: 6/17/07 at 10:51 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:51am

Hence winky face!

[alliez92092]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:58am

Wait, what was the Taboo story? I think I missed this.

[friedrichVT]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 10:58am

Emcee try selling your plea to the producers of the show. Break down the term BOX OFFICE DRAW. It means revenue is brought to the box office because of the performer. If this personality only appeals to the minority of theatre fans, as most of commercial theatre relies on NYC tourism, and the people do not come after 6 or 7 months, then the person in the large spectrum of commercial theater is not a draw.The shows's NOT selling. A talented performer and a box office draw in commercial theater are vastly different. For Limited runs,sure he could be a box office draw,but trying to headline him above the title and appeal to a tourist market for a long running show is LUDICROUS. Beyond theare fans, NO one knows who he is.
Updated On: 6/17/07 at 10:58 AM

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:00am

I'm as big a Raul fan as anyone, but if he's such a "box office draw" why is his show closing in 7 months at a loss?

Right, to this I'll basically echo what orangeskittles said. Christine Ebersole is what I'd consider perhaps a "bankable name" and box office draw beyond the theater community, and even with unparalleled raves for her, Grey Gardens has struggled. I don't think anyone's arguing that the general public is flocking to the Barrymore in droves to see Raul's performance, just that he's enough of a draw that it has an impact on ticket sales within the theater community. Unfortunately, that's such a small community that it's not nearly enough. Updated On: 6/17/07 at 11:00 AM

[D2]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:03am

Christine Ebersole is not a bankable name outside the theater community either. Just because she's made some guest appearances on sitcoms and other T.V. shows, she is not known by name outside of New York and a few LA agent's offices.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:05am

Hm. Well, I knew who she was before Grey Gardens, but I'd buy that.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:16am

Good point, skittles.

HOWEVER, we can't even really say whether the producers thought that Raul would be big enough alone? Doyle's a Tony-winning director. The show's themes have mass appeal, and nobody ever capitlalized on that enough.There are many, many things that should have been done differently. But I'm not a producer. That's not my job. I never COULD be a producer. But I have to wonder if anyone ever even expected this to take off and be a major success.

But still, you are blatantly missing the point. BCR's post said that Raul is a box office draw within. the. theater. world. He never said that he was a box office draw and left it at that. In doing that, he's saying you can argue that Raul's name appeals to theater fans -- the majority of a minority, if you will. YOU break it down. Box office draw means that the name draws. people. in. If we're talking about the rest of the world, then no, it's not true. If we're talking about the theater community, which is what got this discussion started in the first place, then yes, it's totally valid. He brings people in. I don't get why you seem to think that any level of box office draw is irrelevant to the point of being non-existant unless it keeps a show from closing. He got people in, which you cannot ignore simply because he wasn't enough to keep the show open longer and sell it out, etc. Look at it this way: with a complete unknown, the show may have closed even sooner, because you would have lost the people who came in to see him. I know, though, they don't exist.

I'm tired of repeating myself, so I'm not going to explain it again. And I have to go out. To get tickets to the show. To see my favorite non-box office draw. So you can chew on that for a while, yeah?

[Craww]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:18am

My parents both knew who Christine Ebersole was, and they've never seen a Broadway show in their lives. She has plenty of credits for those who pay attention. Granted, most people don't pay attention like my family does, so it's probably true that she's no sort of bankable name to tourists. Besides hearing of the infamous raves, which aren't doing that much for box office.

The phrase box office draw, especially when amended with "in the theatre world", is quantifiable. If being responsible for a hit on Broadway is the only way you earn that title, then almost no one is a box office draw within the theatre world. There has to be some levels to allow for circumstance.

I saw Company in previews because of Raul Esparza. So, for at least 2 people, he was a box office draw. I would imagine many people could say the same.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:18am

The producers didn't promote this show - it's plan and simple.

I think they are awful producers. They get great productions, and they don't promote them. It's ridiculous.

[Born To Reign]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:22am

I think that sums it up, ljay

[MotorTink]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:26am

i agree with ljay and others. I think the non existent marketing of the show was its biggest downfall. I also didn't expect it to have a long run from the beginning, big name or not. Some shows just aren't meant to have a long run. I first listened to the cd and eventually saw the show because of a introductory interest in Raul.

My fiancee is not a big theater person but he went with me. He couldn't stand the show itself (story wise) and found it boring. I was shocked at the end when he said "Well I did like the instrument thing and that depressed leading guy was pretty good". From my fiancee that is a great review, lol!

[bwaybabe3]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:32am

What did DHP say about Raul in his acceptance speech? He didn't only mention Groff and naps, I'm assuming he said something about all the nominees but I can't remember.

[Weez]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:45am

"I'm sitting here tonight and I'm reminded of Raúl [Esparza]'s amazing performance, and my dear friend Michael Cerveris, and Gavin [Lee], who tap dances on the ceiling and Jonathan [Groff] who has so much talent at a young age that I have to go take a nap, and I think, oh yeah, they're going to call my name and they are going to say, "David Hyde Pierce, I'm sorry we're going to have to ask you to leave.""

TonyAwards.com has transcripts of all the speeches. ^_^

[bwaybabe3]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:52am

thanks!

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:53am

I am so ready to get past the Tonys - it's been a long week.

OT (intentional) - has anyone bothered to see how many different Raul avatars there are?

[Weez]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 11:57am

I've not counted, but I was amused to see them all pop up. Mine's staying until after the 1st. ^_^

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 12:00pm

Mine's staying up until someone/something earns the right to replace it!

[misschung]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 12:48pm

lol tink, your fiance's review is great!

The lack of advertising for this show is really unfortunate. And I know that I'm in the minority with this pov, but I really disliked the "Sex in the City" comparison that was used.

[fishdancer23]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 12:53pm

Agree. It made it sound like an old sitcom. Cutesy. Been there...done that.

[keen on kean]

Posted: 6/17/07 at 4:04pm

To say nothing of being a misleading comparison! Other than the single life in New York similarity, can't see the comparables.