#26
Posted: 7/8/10 at 9:06pm
PalJoey, my thoughts exactly!!!!
SOUTH PACIFIC Set to Return to the Big Screen — Page 2
#27
Posted: 7/9/10 at 5:47am
The Glenn Close version was fine but they cut-out the great song "Happy Talk". A film remake would be great as the original film was disappointing. Neither Mitzi Gaynor nor Rossano Brazzi are great actors. I thought Doris Day would have been great. Who will they sign now? Lindsay Lohan?
#28
Posted: 7/9/10 at 8:50am
Lea Michele as Nellie and Patti LuPone as Bloody Mary?
That would scare the cr*p out of me ^^
That would scare the cr*p out of me ^^
#29
Posted: 7/9/10 at 9:36am
I just imagined Patti singing "Happy Talk" and I'm not going to lie the thought amused me.
#30
Posted: 7/9/10 at 10:43am
I don't like the "harder edge" line at all.
The Best of Times is Now!
#31
Posted: 7/9/10 at 10:51am
I wonder if Robert Downey, Jr could sing well enough to be cast as Emile?
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#32
Posted: 7/9/10 at 12:51pm
No...but I could see him as Billis.
"All our dreams can come true -- if we have the courage to pursue them." -- Walt Disney
We must have different Gods. My God said "do to others what you would have them do to you". Your God seems to have said "My Way or the Highway".
#34
Posted: 7/9/10 at 3:44pm
"I don't like the "harder edge" line at all."
How do you feel about the current revival? I would say it definitely has a harder edge than any production I have seen to date.
How do you feel about the current revival? I would say it definitely has a harder edge than any production I have seen to date.
#35
Posted: 7/9/10 at 3:53pm
When I saw it I did not see a "harder edge" I saw an amazing production of a classic musical.
#36
Posted: 7/10/10 at 12:09am
There is also a huge following of War War II dramas that will flock to it.
"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman
#37
Posted: 7/11/10 at 6:33am
It will probably never get made after the fiasco of such musicals as "Nine". Investors want a profit and musical re-makes don't make any money. A new version would be nice but it's a "Pipe Dream".
#38
Posted: 7/11/10 at 7:51am
Part of the reason "South Pacific" works is because of the way it handles the tougher subjects of racism and war.
If you want to get "tougher" with this material, you run the risk of putting audiences off.
R&H managed to be preachy AND effective, because they were so damned entertaining, in a simple, straightforward, and brilliant way. Why does anyone have the balls, or more accurately, the ego, to mess with that?
And I don't like the word "update." Unless you're going to rewrite the music, leave the book alone. Otherwise they'll seem out of step with each other.
This already sounds like a big mistake. Their approach to the source material is all wrong.
If you want to get "tougher" with this material, you run the risk of putting audiences off.
R&H managed to be preachy AND effective, because they were so damned entertaining, in a simple, straightforward, and brilliant way. Why does anyone have the balls, or more accurately, the ego, to mess with that?
And I don't like the word "update." Unless you're going to rewrite the music, leave the book alone. Otherwise they'll seem out of step with each other.
This already sounds like a big mistake. Their approach to the source material is all wrong.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#39
Posted: 7/11/10 at 7:56am
Usually, when somebody takes material as solid and beloved as this and in essence says, "we can make it better," it means they have NO clue how to handle it.
How about making it GOOD? How about serving well this classic, Pulitzer prize-winning, Tony-winning icon in the catalog of American theatre?
Can't do that? Okay, make it "better," instead.
Fail.
How about making it GOOD? How about serving well this classic, Pulitzer prize-winning, Tony-winning icon in the catalog of American theatre?
Can't do that? Okay, make it "better," instead.
Fail.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#40
Posted: 7/11/10 at 8:29am
I don't know, best12bars. I agree with you as to why the show is so good, but the two film versions in existence leave a lot to be desired.
I think R&H themselves, as co-producers, attempted to do what the new producers describe by showing Cable and Adams in the plane in the film's first scene, and by filming Billis's near-disastrous attempt to stow away much later. They were right to recognize that the story has appeal as a war movie; they just didn't do it full justice.
Maybe the rewrite will steer closer to Michener's book, while still utilizing the songs. It could work quite well, could make an early dramatic effort to deal with racism seem more pertinent. There have often been complaints that time has made the material seem quaint. I don't agree, mind you, but there have been. It is not a bad idea for the producers to counter that so long as they don't kill what made the material work to begin with.
I don't think the failure of "Nine" is going to have an effect on future film musicals. Several musicals in the years leading up to "Nine" performed quite well at the box office. Marshall is probably the biggest culprit where "Nine" is concerned, and he is already filming a major blockbuster for Jerry Bruckheimer and is in contention to direct the film version of "Wicked". Didn't hurt him at all.
Someone up above mentioned Zac Efron as a possible Cable. That is indeed good casting, better casting age wise than Morrison, who has matured a bit in the past couple of years.
I hope it happens. I just attempted to watch the '58 film again and was bored to death.
I think R&H themselves, as co-producers, attempted to do what the new producers describe by showing Cable and Adams in the plane in the film's first scene, and by filming Billis's near-disastrous attempt to stow away much later. They were right to recognize that the story has appeal as a war movie; they just didn't do it full justice.
Maybe the rewrite will steer closer to Michener's book, while still utilizing the songs. It could work quite well, could make an early dramatic effort to deal with racism seem more pertinent. There have often been complaints that time has made the material seem quaint. I don't agree, mind you, but there have been. It is not a bad idea for the producers to counter that so long as they don't kill what made the material work to begin with.
I don't think the failure of "Nine" is going to have an effect on future film musicals. Several musicals in the years leading up to "Nine" performed quite well at the box office. Marshall is probably the biggest culprit where "Nine" is concerned, and he is already filming a major blockbuster for Jerry Bruckheimer and is in contention to direct the film version of "Wicked". Didn't hurt him at all.
Someone up above mentioned Zac Efron as a possible Cable. That is indeed good casting, better casting age wise than Morrison, who has matured a bit in the past couple of years.
I hope it happens. I just attempted to watch the '58 film again and was bored to death.
#41
Posted: 7/11/10 at 8:41am
The film version and the TV version are both dreadful, and they didn't serve the material well either.
Everyone wants to make it "better," instead of filming South Pacific.
Everyone wants to make it "better," instead of filming South Pacific.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#42
Posted: 7/11/10 at 10:06am
The producers give more details on the planned remake ( which may take sometime to go ahead )on a Variety update --
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118021578.html?categoryId=2526&cs=1
Some excerpts :
>>Producers Ileen Maisel and Bob Balaban, who announced their rights deal on July 8, believe the key is to combine the fantasy world of the beloved Rodgers & Hammerstein songs with the gritty realism of wartime romance and racism. It's a tall order but the duo believes it's the path to a story that works for contemporary crowds.
Balaban, whose producing credits include "Gosford Park," and New Line veteran Maisel are meeting with screenwriters in the U.S. and the U.K. in hopes of finding a scribe who can execute that vision.
They won't go out to directors until they've got a completed script in hand.
"We want to show how people really did talk and act in 1944, which is something that the film and play don't come anywhere close to showing," Maisel notes. "What we're going to do is to make the songs the emotional underpinning of the story. So the songs will be the emotional ying to the realistic yang."
And unlike many modern musicals, the new "South Pacific" producers won't delve into the realm of magical realism. "This isn't going to be something like Martin Scorsese's 'New York, New York,' " Maisel notes.
Preliminary plans are to shoot "South Pacific" in Bali, home to some of the world's most spectacular scenery...<<<
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118021578.html?categoryId=2526&cs=1
Some excerpts :
>>Producers Ileen Maisel and Bob Balaban, who announced their rights deal on July 8, believe the key is to combine the fantasy world of the beloved Rodgers & Hammerstein songs with the gritty realism of wartime romance and racism. It's a tall order but the duo believes it's the path to a story that works for contemporary crowds.
Balaban, whose producing credits include "Gosford Park," and New Line veteran Maisel are meeting with screenwriters in the U.S. and the U.K. in hopes of finding a scribe who can execute that vision.
They won't go out to directors until they've got a completed script in hand.
"We want to show how people really did talk and act in 1944, which is something that the film and play don't come anywhere close to showing," Maisel notes. "What we're going to do is to make the songs the emotional underpinning of the story. So the songs will be the emotional ying to the realistic yang."
And unlike many modern musicals, the new "South Pacific" producers won't delve into the realm of magical realism. "This isn't going to be something like Martin Scorsese's 'New York, New York,' " Maisel notes.
Preliminary plans are to shoot "South Pacific" in Bali, home to some of the world's most spectacular scenery...<<<
Updated On: 7/11/10 at 10:06 AM
#43
Posted: 7/11/10 at 2:09pm
Oh, God.
This sounds like another "the songs are in an alternate reality" movie, like Chicago and Nine (and parts of All That Jazz).
And the "gritty realism" thing was tried 25 years ago in a musical movie called "Pennies From Heaven." It had a brutally realistic, violent and seriously depressing plot, mixed with frothy Depression Era "fantasy" musical numbers.
It suffered from a major identity crisis, a bipolar creative concept, and it tanked.
This sounds like another "the songs are in an alternate reality" movie, like Chicago and Nine (and parts of All That Jazz).
And the "gritty realism" thing was tried 25 years ago in a musical movie called "Pennies From Heaven." It had a brutally realistic, violent and seriously depressing plot, mixed with frothy Depression Era "fantasy" musical numbers.
It suffered from a major identity crisis, a bipolar creative concept, and it tanked.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#44
Posted: 7/11/10 at 4:15pm
What I don't get is this: "We want to show how people really did talk and act in 1944, which is something that the film and play don't come anywhere close to showing."
Are they really saying that Hammerstein and Logan didn't know how to write contemporary dialogue when they were developing the show? It's not as if it was a period piece when it opened.
Are they really saying that Hammerstein and Logan didn't know how to write contemporary dialogue when they were developing the show? It's not as if it was a period piece when it opened.
#45
Posted: 7/11/10 at 4:46pm
Remember when MAD MEN first aired and we were so shocked and simultaneously refreshed with it unvarnished approach to 60's racisim, sexism and office culture?
I think SOUTH PACIFIC can handle a touch more of that.
I honestly believe Hammerstein would have gone further that way if he could. But the 1950's sensibility could barely handle YOU'VE GOT TO BE CAREFULLY TAUGHT. So much so, that it was almost cut.
In the right hands I could see it working.
For a contemporary audience, one of shortcomings of the stage and film version is that you get no sense of the world at war, no sense of worlds colliding. If I didn't see the uniforms I could have thought they were at Club Med.
I think SOUTH PACIFIC can handle a touch more of that.
I honestly believe Hammerstein would have gone further that way if he could. But the 1950's sensibility could barely handle YOU'VE GOT TO BE CAREFULLY TAUGHT. So much so, that it was almost cut.
In the right hands I could see it working.
For a contemporary audience, one of shortcomings of the stage and film version is that you get no sense of the world at war, no sense of worlds colliding. If I didn't see the uniforms I could have thought they were at Club Med.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt
Updated On: 7/11/10 at 04:46 PM
#46
Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:17pm
I understand their desire to emphasize to reality of war, etc.
HOWEVER, if that means throwing out much of the book because they want to show how people "really did talk and act in 1944", that's a much different thing.
I'm not a purist. It's sounds like a horrible idea because if the dialogue is roughed up, how will Hammerstein's already pretty lyrical lyrics sound? The music will be completely anachronistic!
HOWEVER, if that means throwing out much of the book because they want to show how people "really did talk and act in 1944", that's a much different thing.
I'm not a purist. It's sounds like a horrible idea because if the dialogue is roughed up, how will Hammerstein's already pretty lyrical lyrics sound? The music will be completely anachronistic!
#47
Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:21pm
It's a clumsy idea. SO many people today think that if they hit you over the head with the "message" or the "facts" or the "information" that they can drive their realistic point home and that it makes for a better piece artistically.
Wrong.
I'll use "The Children's Hour" as an example. The play shocked people in the 1930s with its story of two women accused of being lesbians by one of their disgruntled child students who was out to get them. They filmed it in the 1930s, but softened the controversial subject matter. Instead of lesbianism, they were accused of having a menage a trois. And it was barely implied, rather than "in your face." The acting was first-rate, with Miriam Hopkins, Merle Oberon, Joel McCrea, and Bonita Granville as the child brat who spreads the lie. She was so good, she received one of the first Oscar nominations for Best Supporting Actress. It's a terrific, powerful film and holds up surprisingly well, because of the strong performances, the tight script and the thoughtful direction by William Wyler.
Jump ahead 30 years, and they film it as "The Children's Hour," restoring the lesbian plot device and all of the "gritty realism" that went with it from the original play. The result? A far less successful film, not nearly as powerful, and not nearly as well acted or directed, even though it was William Wyler at the helm once again.
Sometimes a suggestion can work better than an in-your-face example. It's far more powerful dramatically, because the audience's mind is doing the work for them. It's imagining what was being said and done behind closed doors.
Another example: the most violent attack in the movie "Jaws" is the first one, where you don't see anything on screen except for the woman Chrissy being pulled around by the shark underwater. The graphic violence is all implied, meaning that it's in your mind. Spielberg actually filmed it that way only because he ran out of money and time and couldn't afford more mechanical shark shots. So he deiced not to show the shark at all in this sequence. And he also admits now that it's the most effective attack scene in the movie.
Back to "South Pacific." There have been many World War II films that have shown the "realistic" side of war. Recently, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, and scads of others.
Do these guys really think they're going to show audiences what it's like to be in WWII while cross-cutting to beautiful Bali H'ai and Happy Talk? James Mitchener's view of the South Pacific is a romanticized one. They aren't seen through rose colored glasses (or Logan's horrible lens filters), but they are emotional stories with very realistic emotions at the core. That's why they work and are so effective. Not because we're watching a soldier's head explode while Nellie's washing her hair.
The powerful impact of the war is made through the artistic interpretation of these facts, not the "realistic" and literal presentation of them. Rodgers & Hammerstein were geniuses. Not pop songwriters. They knew exactly how to tell and build a story, how not to insult the intelligence of their audiences, how to get their messages across, and how to be entertaining at the same time.
Why is that so hard for today's creative people to understand that? And why do they make the same egotistical mistakes over and over again with the same ineffective and misguided results?
Wrong.
I'll use "The Children's Hour" as an example. The play shocked people in the 1930s with its story of two women accused of being lesbians by one of their disgruntled child students who was out to get them. They filmed it in the 1930s, but softened the controversial subject matter. Instead of lesbianism, they were accused of having a menage a trois. And it was barely implied, rather than "in your face." The acting was first-rate, with Miriam Hopkins, Merle Oberon, Joel McCrea, and Bonita Granville as the child brat who spreads the lie. She was so good, she received one of the first Oscar nominations for Best Supporting Actress. It's a terrific, powerful film and holds up surprisingly well, because of the strong performances, the tight script and the thoughtful direction by William Wyler.
Jump ahead 30 years, and they film it as "The Children's Hour," restoring the lesbian plot device and all of the "gritty realism" that went with it from the original play. The result? A far less successful film, not nearly as powerful, and not nearly as well acted or directed, even though it was William Wyler at the helm once again.
Sometimes a suggestion can work better than an in-your-face example. It's far more powerful dramatically, because the audience's mind is doing the work for them. It's imagining what was being said and done behind closed doors.
Another example: the most violent attack in the movie "Jaws" is the first one, where you don't see anything on screen except for the woman Chrissy being pulled around by the shark underwater. The graphic violence is all implied, meaning that it's in your mind. Spielberg actually filmed it that way only because he ran out of money and time and couldn't afford more mechanical shark shots. So he deiced not to show the shark at all in this sequence. And he also admits now that it's the most effective attack scene in the movie.
Back to "South Pacific." There have been many World War II films that have shown the "realistic" side of war. Recently, Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryan, and scads of others.
Do these guys really think they're going to show audiences what it's like to be in WWII while cross-cutting to beautiful Bali H'ai and Happy Talk? James Mitchener's view of the South Pacific is a romanticized one. They aren't seen through rose colored glasses (or Logan's horrible lens filters), but they are emotional stories with very realistic emotions at the core. That's why they work and are so effective. Not because we're watching a soldier's head explode while Nellie's washing her hair.
The powerful impact of the war is made through the artistic interpretation of these facts, not the "realistic" and literal presentation of them. Rodgers & Hammerstein were geniuses. Not pop songwriters. They knew exactly how to tell and build a story, how not to insult the intelligence of their audiences, how to get their messages across, and how to be entertaining at the same time.
Why is that so hard for today's creative people to understand that? And why do they make the same egotistical mistakes over and over again with the same ineffective and misguided results?
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#49
Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:53pm
I wish you were doing the film, Best12bars. You make sense, and the producers don't (I think they don't--hard to tell *what* they intend).
South :Pacific is one of my favorites, and I can't think it would be improved by adding F-bombs and "gritty reality."
South :Pacific is one of my favorites, and I can't think it would be improved by adding F-bombs and "gritty reality."
#50
Posted: 7/11/10 at 5:57pm
I still contend that the realities of war were fresh in the minds of the audience when SOUTH PACIFIC opened so there was an emotional resonance that we don't get from it today.
Something that indicates the world is at peril is vital for the tension and urgency in the characters to find and keep love. Without a contemporary audience sensing that the world is on the brink of disaster, the romance becomes borderline Harlequin.
... and besides...
I always thought Billis was a closet case. So if they go gritty I want to see him and Stewpot get it on.
Something that indicates the world is at peril is vital for the tension and urgency in the characters to find and keep love. Without a contemporary audience sensing that the world is on the brink of disaster, the romance becomes borderline Harlequin.
... and besides...
I always thought Billis was a closet case. So if they go gritty I want to see him and Stewpot get it on.
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt
Updated On: 7/11/10 at 05:57 PM
