Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie- Page 2
Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
#25Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/15/18 at 10:23pm
I don't think all the theaters dim their lights for anyone... I remember I was going to a show the day they were dimming for Elaine Stritch, so I assumed they all did, so I stood outside of Studio 54 (the closest Broadway theater to wherever I was going).... and nothing. And many people were standing there for the same reason, so we all just shrugged and went about our business.
#26Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/15/18 at 11:45pm
BroadwayConcierge said: "I am really getting sick of having drama about marquee dimming every time a Broadway legend passes. It ends up taking time and energy away from actually remembering and commemorating legends like Jan and Marin."
I agree with this, but I also recognize that some people just like to kvetch at every opportunity so I have no confidence you'll get your way.
"There needs to be a clear, transparent protocol in place."
There is (although I don't really understand on what basis there "needs" to be). As rehearsed multiple times in this thread, there is now a Committee of Theatre Owners that makes the decision. Not St. Martin, not the league as a whole, not a league committee that includes producers. Logically, they could decide to dim at any number of theatres they want, and since it is a free country, any theatre owner can do anything they damn well please with the light switches on their own premises, regardless of what the committee does or does not do. And to be clear, this committee is of recent vintage and manifestly designed to take this off of St. Martin's plate.
Sometimes I wish Mr. Schoenfeld were still alive. Sometimes I also wish Mr. Steinbrenner were still alive, but that's another matter.
#27Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 12:34am
@BroadwayConcierge The house manager isn't allowed to turn off the lights - a union electrician has to do that. As far as Charlotte, she's the chief executive or the organization who was hired by the board of directors - but she's an administrator, not a decision maker, when it comes to stuff like this or most League business actually.
#28Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 1:42am
Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this anywhere, but I thought it was interesting: the tradition of dimming the marquee lights on Broadway was started in 1952 to honor Gertrude Lawrence, who died of viral hepatitis shortly after originating the role of Anna in THE KING AND I.
I thought it a bittersweet bit of circularity with Anna also being Marin’s last full role.
#29Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 8:29am
BroadwayConcierge said: "I'm tired of therealways being a hullaballoo when we could simply just dim the fr*gging lights. Dimming a marquee does not require a massive undertaking. Literally, the house manager just needs to remember to shut off the lights for one minute and turn them back on.
There needs to be a clear, transparent protocol in place."
YES. This is not too much to ask for.
As I believe I said in another thread, what is the point of having an honor if you only bestow it with an asterisk? It means each honor is an insult - and why?
If Marin doesn't deserve this, then who does? Joan wasn't given it because they said she wasn't really primarily a Bway talent, but had appeared on Bway (to a Tony nod) and was a huge supporter, but more known in popular culture. Well, Marin was Bway royalty. What, did she need to be bigger in popular culture. Again, what am I even doing parsing this - just dim the damn lights!
#30Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 8:47am
MikeInTheDistrict said: "Anna also being Marin’s last full role."
(her last role was in Terrence McNally's god-awful play "Fire and Air" at CSC, but I'd be willing to pretend it didn't happen if you are)
#31Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 9:00am
JBroadway said: "MikeInTheDistrict said: "Anna also being Marin’s last full role."
(her last role was in Terrence McNally's god-awful play "Fire and Air" at CSC, but I'd be willing to pretend it didn't happen if you are)
Oh, I had no idea she was in a play just earlier this year. If it was as bad as you say, I’m willing to pretend it didn’t happen, lol.
jimmycurry01
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/05
#32Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 11:37am
It is ridiculous to me that people here get their panties in a twist and start clutching their pearls over who lights are or are not dimmed for and which theatres are or are not doing it.
Seriously, why not be happy that some theatres are choosing to honor her? Why can't you just accept the recognition that is being offered?
With the amount of drama that the light dimming tradition seems to bring, maybe it is time to let the tradition be a thing of the past. It would be a sad thing to let such a tradition die, but with the sense of entitlement that seems to have grown around it, it seems to cheapen the honor.
#33Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 12:12pm
If I remember correctly, Charlotte St. Martin was the one who was issuing statements about not dimming of lights during the Joan Rivers outrage of 2014.
Since then, she has been the target of everything, (and personally, rightfully so).
I feel like we need something like every month the lights get shut off for those that passed from the community. And if theatre owners feel like they want to do more, they can.
JSquared2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/23/17
#34Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 2:41pm
fashionguru_23 said:
I feel like we need something like every month the lights get shut off for those that passed from the community. And if theatre owners feel like they want to do more, they can."
As others have said, if YOU feel that is what is “”needed”, then YOU go out and build (or buy) your own <<edited by BWW staff>> theatre and do it.
#35Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 4:25pm
fashionguru_23 said: "I feel like we need something like every month the lights get shut off for those that passed from the community. And if theatre owners feel like they want to do more, they can."
In addition to the silliness of the "need" comment, what's ridiculous about this suggestion is that (a) it dilutes the gesture to nil (hence the surrender sentiment of Jimmycurry) and (b) it leaves us exactly where we started since it also says the owners can do more if they want. [Side memo: unless you represent Local One, the owners do not need your permission to turn their lights on or off.
#36Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:30pm
Someone at the Broadway League said they are entirely unaware of any controversy or any public outcry about this or any other dimming of the lights.
Jarethan
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/10/11
#37Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:38pm
Is there a list anywhere of people for whom they have dimmed all theatre lights? For me, it would help put in perspective whether or not doing it for Mazzie is an egregious error or is consistent with historic results?
I personally have no skin in the game. I only saw her in Enron. She was out for the only performance of Ragtime that I actually attended on Broadway, as well as both performances of Kiss Me, Kate that I attended.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#38Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:39pm
HogansHero said: "zainmax said: "Pretty sure that a committee and not St. Martin decides."
Perhaps you misread what I wrote because I said that the committee (of theatre owners) and not Martin decides.
"Also, might want to be careful Hogan about calling it a cartel."
Why? It is a cartel. All cartels are not illegal. (Plus why would I be careful, unless someone just gifted me a theatre? 
which would be cool)"
True, but usually in the labor context, the allegations of being a cartel are that it's illegal.
#39Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:48pm
I don't think I have ever heard it used in a labor context. The most common historical usage in this country was to refer to a group of businesses that banded together in ways that subsequently became illegal with the passage of the antitrust laws (price fixing, territorial agreements, etc.) Today the most common usage is in reference to drug cartels. But the word itself simply refers to a group that comes together to reach an agreement as to a common purpose. I don't think anyone could conjure up anything illegal about an agreement regarding light dimming although it seems clear that some of us here think what was done is criminal.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#40Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 5:59pm
You're right. It is an antitrust term, but comes up in regards to labor with the Bway League. https://www.broadwayleague.com/press/press-releases/the-broadway-league-files-lawsuit-against-casting-company-cartel/ Couldn't they make arguments conversely about Bway League in regards to its collective bargaining negotiations?
#41Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 6:57pm
ah yes, well actually the League's point there is that the casting directors are not employees (hence NOT entitled to a union) and are exactly what the antitrust laws forbid, which is a group coming together without being entitled to the benefits of the Wagner Act to fix the terms on which they do business with producers. It is more of a PR argument than a legal one. And no, the converse is not true, because the League is a legally sanctioned party to collective bargaining agreements (and in fact, of course, the casting directors want to bargain with one party, not separately with every producer). And anticipating the next question, if the casting directors are deemed not to be a union, then the League is not doing anything prohibited, because they are NOT trying to reach a forbidden agreement. The producers would anticipate negotiating individually with the individual casting entities, as they have since the invention of casting directors.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#42Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 7:40pm
Thanks. Very informative. Are you a lawyer?
geoffreyC
Understudy Joined: 4/16/18
#43Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 7:54pm
Can someone explain the obsession that certain people on this board have with this whole light business? It seems to bubble up to the surface in a hail of incensed fury every time someone of note passes away. I hadn't realized that all of Broadway was ruled by one despotic autocrat out to extract petty revenge on the dead, but apparently that is the case -- according to these aforementioned souls.
#44Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 8:15pm
@zain, I'll give you the same answer that I would give you if you had asked if I am a Catholic.
If you can't figure that riddle out, let me know.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#45Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/16/18 at 10:52pm
I might be missing something. What's the riddle?
#46Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/17/18 at 8:42am
JSquared2 said: "fashionguru_23 said:
I feel like we need something like every month the lights get shut off for those that passed from the community. And if theatre owners feel like they want to do more, they can."
As others have said, if YOUfeel that is what is “”needed”, then YOU go out and build (or buy) your own <> theatreand do it."
If YOU feel like its not "needed", then why don't YOU go out and mind your OWN business, when all I did was merely offer a suggestion. And thank YOU for taking time to tell ME what to do when all I've done is make a comment.
#47Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/17/18 at 11:35am
https://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/09/09/broadway-theaters-will-dim-lights-for-joan-rivers-after-all
This was the statement Charlotte St. Martin made initially when The Broadway League (or the committee, whoever they are) didn't allow the dimming for Joan Rivers.
"On Monday Ms. St. Martin disclosed that a committee of the league – the trade group of theater owners and producers – had decided against dimming the lights for Ms. Rivers, saying the honor was reserved for actors and others who had been active on Broadway recently or were 'synonymous with Broadway – people who made their careers here, or kept it up.'"
How does that not apply to Marin Mazzie, of all people? Does William Ivey Long, who isn't the chairman of the American Theatre Wing anymore but dressed Marin in Bullets Over Broadway, need to write another letter?
Seeing some artists like Bernadette Peters, Audra McDonald, Alice Ripley, Donna Murphy leading the charge in asking to #DimThemAll.
http://www.rrstar.com/news/20180915/actors-rally-to-dimthemall-on-broadway-for-late-rockford-star-marin-mazzie
#48Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/17/18 at 1:48pm
Why do we have to deal with this BS when someone in the community dies!? Just dim all the damn lights when someone passes in the industry!
When dimming the lights on Broadway..."saying the honor was reserved for actors and others who had been active on Broadway recently or were 'synonymous with Broadway – people who made their careers here, or kept it up.'
#49Send Charlotte St. Martin A Message: Dim All The Lights For Marin Mazzie
Posted: 9/17/18 at 4:33pm
Samuel J. Friedman, as of earlier today, will be dimming lights.
And just added: Lincoln Center Theatre, home of Marin's last Broadway outing:
"In fond memory of the extraordinary Marin Mazzie, Lincoln Center Theater will be dimming the lights at 6:45pm, Wednesday 9/19. Don't miss our additional tribute that evening from 6:45 to 7pm along 65th Street."
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