Songs That Wouldn't Have Made the Cut

[JohnPopa]

Songs That Wouldn't Have Made the Cut#0

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:01pm

I've been discussing among friends the notion that 'all songs in a musical must further the plot' (something I don't inherently believe to be true.) I then said 'look if only songs that further the plot are going to be in musicals we'd better cut 'The Sound of Music' from 'The Sound of Music.'

So, I'm curious: can we think of other classic showtunes that would NOT make it if the only thing songs do is 'further the plot?'

[Borstalboy]

re: Songs That Wouldn't Have Made the Cut#1

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:07pm

You'd have to include just about every Jerry Herman number....

"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.” ~ Muhammad Ali

[Matt_G]

re: Songs That Wouldn't Have Made the Cut#2

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:12pm

Hmmm. MEIN HERR doesn't really further the plot of CABARET and it's one of my favorites from the show.

"Noah, someday we'll talk again. But there's things we'll never say. That sorrow deep inside you. It inside me, too. And it never go away. You be okay. You'll learn how to lose things..."

[dry2olives]

Mein Herr#3

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:29pm

Although Mein Herr doesn't exactly further the plot, the way it was used in the recent revival provides character development -- and that's part of the plot.

The song comes right after Sally has a break-up, and although she sings the song as part of a performance it still provides insight to her attitude toward relationships.

[Mister Matt]

Mein Herr#4

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:43pm

Most of Camelot and Once Upon a Matress.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

[robbiej]

Mein Herr#5

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:47pm

MILLER'S SON (one of Sondheim's best...IMHO)

People get wrapped up in 'IT MUST FURTHER THE PLOT' instead of asking 'Is there a point to this song?'

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

[SueleenGay]

Mein Herr#6

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:51pm

Further the plot or enhance the theme. Miller's Son does nothing to further the plot, but boy, does it say a lot about the characters/theme.

PEACE.

[leomaxfrank]

Mein Herr#7

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:52pm

totally agree ..

NOT classics..but certainly, what purpose do they serve?

Dumb Dog - Annie
Little Lamb - Gypsy


notice the pattern??

But I won't live alone in a house of regret.

Updated On: 6/2/04 at 12:52 PM

[robbiej]

Mein Herr#8

Posted: 6/2/04 at 12:53pm

Absolutely, Sueleen.

But there are still many folks who don't actually get that...so I thought I'd bring it up!

"I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead."

[MusicMan]

Mein Herr#9

Posted: 6/2/04 at 3:44pm

The musical form is elastic enough to accommodate songs that not only further the plot or reveal character but also allow for moments of repose, demonstration of performers' virtuosity, production numbers, etc. The over-psychologizing of the dramatic musical at the expense of fantasy, romance, and humor has brought the form to an artistic dead end and certainly accounts for the rash of musical comedies that have surfaced in the last few years.

[GovernorSlaton]

Mein Herr#10

Posted: 6/2/04 at 4:04pm

Wasn't Schwartz criticized for writing pop tunes, and not songs that further Wicked's plot?
Well, I guess (It's) Hairspray doesn't really add anything to Hairspray (except the title).

[Rose_MacShane]

Mein Herr#11

Posted: 6/2/04 at 5:43pm

Absolutely, GovernorSlaton. I think "Wicked"'s score just gets in the way of the plot.
As for songs that don't advance plots, "Ya Never Know" from LSOH doesn't really do anything. Neither do any of Muzzy's songs in TMM, but they are very pretty, even if they don't serve any real porpose.

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[JakeB]

Mein Herr#12

Posted: 6/2/04 at 5:49pm

What?! Hundreds of songs don't do anything for the plot in any tiny little way. They tell you about the character, which yes is character devlopment and possibly plot development, but 50% of the time they are just there for padding and not plot; The Music of the Night, eg.

[on1ystarinthesky]

Mein Herr#13

Posted: 6/2/04 at 5:57pm

Yeah, I could have done without Muzzy's songs. Good songs, yes, but I usually skip right over them. And the show wouldn't have collapsed if they were gone.

And I wouldn't shed one tear if "One Short Day" was cut from WICKED. It's the most pointless and annoying song in the world.

DJ Jellyfeltz's Weekly "Don't You Just Hate That?" (courtesy of Scott Cohen)
Walking by the same person you've already walked by in the dairy, produce, and frozen-food sections.
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[Jon]

Mein Herr#14

Posted: 6/2/04 at 6:15pm

Little Lamb is essential - it is the first time you find out how lonely and unhappy Louise is - she IS the second most important character in the show, and it's her only solo, other than the striptease.

[Plum]

Mein Herr#15

Posted: 6/2/04 at 7:15pm

Tons of songs that don't "further the plot" are character development songs or ones that develop the themes of the show.

[jonartdesigns]

Mein Herr#16

Posted: 6/2/04 at 7:41pm

la vie boheme springs to mind- good song but has no point

"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel

[BillyLawlor]

Hmmmm.....#17

Posted: 6/2/04 at 7:42pm

"The Sound of Music" and "Little Lamb" are incredibly essential of furthering the plot to their shows and characters. In "The Sound of Music", we meet Maria, and we get to see into her world, and where she's coming from, and how in love she is with the hills and mountains, and how absent-minded and good natured she is. It gives us so much needed information about her character.
The same can be said about "Little Lamb". We see that Louise doesn't even know how old she is, just furthering how much we know about Rose, and we see how incredibly alone she is. Each of these songs lets us into the character's personal lives; they are quite important.

[Sumofallthings]

Hmmmm.....#18

Posted: 6/2/04 at 7:43pm

Cats?

BSoBW2: I punched Sondheim in the face after I saw Wicked and said, "Why couldn't you write like that!?"

[Jon]

Hmmmm.....#19

Posted: 6/2/04 at 11:38pm

Nonew of the songs in CATS can further the plot becuase CATS has no plot. It's the perfect show for foreign tourists - the lyrics make no sense anyway.

[Rose_MacShane]

Hmmmm.....#20

Posted: 6/3/04 at 12:15am

All right, I'll agree that CATS has the bare minumum in a plot, but what do you mean by "the lyrics make no sense"? Is that in connection to the story or are they just unintelligeble?
Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, back to the topic at hand. Two more songs I would add to the list are "Two Ladies" and "You'll Never Walk Alone."

http://community.livejournal.com/ltd_brands_suck/

[bythesword84]

Hmmmm.....#21

Posted: 6/3/04 at 12:38am

Hmm I'd say "Seasons of Love" doesn't really do anything to push the Rent plot along. But Im not a Rent fan so I don't know if this point is really valid.

And hang on, when did you win the discus?

[Peter]

Hmmmm.....#22

Posted: 6/3/04 at 1:29am

Dare I say "Somewhere" from West Side Story?..one of my favorites. It's really a pretty generic love song which certainly does serve a plot point in WSS to a certain extent, but if you take the word "forgiving" out of it, you could pretty easily insert it into any musical with a central love story.

[ActionBoy]

Hmmmm.....#23

Posted: 6/3/04 at 4:20am

I agree, Peter. Especially when the "dream ballet" sequence is included... a neat plot device and pretty music, sure. But it doesn't necessarily advance the plot. By contrast, every other song in WSS serves an obvious purpose, respectively. "Somewhere" is just a pretty song, though. :)

[twogaab2]

Hmmmm.....#24

Posted: 6/3/04 at 9:43am

Not ALL songs need advance the plot. Lehman Engle's book on American Musical Theater dicusses all of this at length with excellent examples given for each catagory.

I would suggest reading this book as essential.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

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