Spring Awakening Wins Grammy for Best Musical Show Album- Page 3

[snl89]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:12pm

snl -- I'm not asking you to say that you think Company should have won over Spring Awakening. Thankfully, I'm not that blindly biased. You love Spring Awakening. That's lovely, it's fabulous, we all get that. What I'm talking about not a matter of what you love; it's a matter of what's better writing. Plenty of my favorite scores are not so great. It sort of bothers me when people are afraid of admitting that they might like something that might not be hailed as the greatest thing on earth, so instead of just owning up, they say they actually think it's objectively great.


I get what you're trying to say I think Emcee, but I'm just a little confused in one aspect: If you're not asking me to say that I think Company should have been chosen over SA, then what ARE you trying to suggest? I understand that you're not trying to get me to say I LIKE Company more, and I appreciate that, but aren't you, by implying that Company is undoubtedly the better written of the two, suggesting that I should be looking beyond what I like to say "yes, Company should have won"? And I'm not saying it's a bad thing if you are, it's just, I'm confused, because it seems to me that that's just the argument you're trying to make haha.


So here's the thing: why is it okay to say that Sondheim is objectively great, but the Spring Awakening score is one that "might be likeable but could never be objectively great"? IS there such thing as objectively great anyway? There's such thing as objectively more challenging, for sure, but doesn't "great" just depend on what each individual thinks is great music? Sondheim is, I'm sure, far more challenging than Spring Awakening musically, but in MY opinion, Spring Awakening is very well written.

Sorry, I don't mean to take it out on you specifically, it's just it's a pet peeve of mine when people start acting like you only know what you're talking about in terms of musical theater when you treat Sondheim like God and everyone else is below him. I can appreciate that his work is very well written. But there are also a lot of OTHER works I think are very well written. Musically, I think SA is very solid. And I'm not talking about the lyrics (I actually DO have a few issues with the lyrics), but the MUSIC itself is very well written imo, with incredible harmonies and flowing melodies. So yeah, basically what I meant when I said "I can appreciate Sondheim" is that I'd NEVER say he is BAD, because I know he's not, and to say that would be ridiculous. But I DON'T think that it's ridiculous to be of the opinion that there are other songwriters just as good, if not even a bit better, than him. And I just feel like a lot of "elitist" theater people get all uppity about it and start acting like a person is just a "teeny bopper fan" of musical theater if they don't like Sondheim. And it frustrates me because I like to think that I AM a real fan, and I DO have some idea of what I am talking about. That's all :)

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 09:12 PM

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:15pm

Wait, who's junk, where and what time?

Did this thread just become a hookup joint.

Score!

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:18pm

And I'm confused skittles, are you quoting me with that Spring Awakening quote? I enjoy the recording but haven't made comment of it on this thread.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:21pm

Sorry, I don't mean to take it out on you specifically, it's just it's a pet peeve of mine when people start acting like you only know what you're talking about in terms of musical theater when you treat Sondheim like God and everyone else is below him.

Yeeeah, the fact that you say that means you DON'T appreciate Sondheim as well as you keep insisting. You don't have to treat him like a musical theatre god to understand that there is a vast difference between Finishing the Hat and Totally F*CKed.



I meant Sondheim's Bobby Bubby.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 09:21 PM

[antiandrewx]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:22pm

Damn, I wanted COMPANY to win. It really deserved it.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:22pm

How about a musical about a tween painter who's really horny?

"Finishing the F*CK"

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:25pm

I hear Sondheim likes junk, but not the musical kind.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:26pm

I am so barking up the wrong tree.

I'm trying to suggest one very, very simple thing: that there is a difference between liking something and having it actually be good, better, best. You (editorial) should be able to recognize that there may be things out there that are better than the ones you like the best. Objectivity in merit is determined by far more than personal taste.

That is about a mile away from trying to get you to say you think Company should have won. I'm not interested in getting you to change your mind. I'm trying to explain the fact that your favorite is not necessarily, in technical terms, the best. That'd would not only be shallow, but it be a worthless waste of time if there ever was one. Company, as far as I was concerned, was the complete antithesis of Spring Awakening.

Of course there's objectivity. To some degree. It's a matter of separating your personal affections and biases from your knowledge of theater: what works, what doesn't, what makes sense.

Sorry, I don't mean to take it out on you specifically, it's just it's a pet peeve of mine when people start acting like you only know what you're talking about in terms of musical theater when you treat Sondheim like God and everyone else is below him.

That's not what I'm saying at all; I wouldn't have wanted people to treat me that way before I really fell in love with Sondheim, and I would never do it to anyone else. The amount of defensiveness in your last paragraph shows that you are completely misinterpreting me as the point I'm trying to make sails right past you. I'm -- again -- trying to point out that what you like the best is not necessarily the thing that's crafted the best. This is really more about the two shows themselves than their respective albums, though, since the album debate really comes down to a matter of production.

Bobby -- you, me, and the other Bobby. Yeah? Much more fun than this thread.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:26pm

"Finishing the f*ck...
Look, I f*cked...
Where there never was c*ck"

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:27pm

Yesssss.

[antiandrewx]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:30pm

orangeskittles - LOL! That was brilliant.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:30pm

Hello, Melchior? Where did you go Melchior? I'm very near Melchior.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:31pm

Yeeeah, the fact that you say that means you DON'T appreciate Sondheim as well as you keep insisting. You don't have to treat him like a musical theatre god to understand that there is a vast difference between Finishing the Hat and Totally F*CKed.


I kind of corrected myself, because I realize that I DID kind of come off wrong by saying "I can understand why he's hailed as one of the great composers of all time". Instead, I change that comment to: "I can appreciate that he definitely knows what he's doing, and I would never consider him BAD just because I'm not a big fan of his music". THAT'S more what I meant to get at. I just said it wrong at first, and I totally take that initial comment back.

I DO appreciate that he's good. I do. And like I've said all along, his music is very challenging seeming, which means it's probably very challenging to write as well. I just don't think he's the ONLY person who is good, and I get frustrated when people treat me as though I'm "not cultured enough" or something just because I don't think he's the be all end all of great composing.



That's not what I'm saying at all; I wouldn't have wanted people to treat me that way before I really fell in love with Sondheim, and I would never do it to anyone else. The amount of defensiveness in your last paragraph shows that you are completely misinterpreting me as the point I'm trying to make sails right past you. I'm -- again -- trying to point out that what you like the best is not necessarily the thing that's crafted the best. This is really more about the two shows themselves than their respective albums, though, since the album debate really comes down to a matter of production.

Noo no, I'm sorry Emcee, I really should have made this clearer: the reason I started that out by apologizing is because I really WASN'T directing it all at you! In fact, you really weren't being very much that way at all :) And I'm truly sorry if I made you feel like you were. It's just, what you were saying was kind of the basis for what a lot of people say in a much more condescending way, and so I was just taking out my frustration on that mindset in general. But what you were saying specifically was really not bad, and I apologize for not having made that clearer.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 09:31 PM

[Not Barker, Todd.]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 9:49pm

It seems like an album rather than a recording representing the show, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Not in an of itself, no, but I think it was badly produced beyond that, and after all, it is an award for best Cast Recording, which SA wasn't produced as.






Helloooo Hans.
Where did you go, Hans?
I know you're near Hans.
I caught your cream, Hans.
I want your ear, Hans.
Want to NIB-BLE! Hans!

Everybody loves Bobby!
Bobby's simple and kind!
Everybody loves Bobby!
Bobby's bobbable.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 10:08pm

I'm bobbable.

I can't think of a higher compliment than that.

[broadwayfan7]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 10:11pm

Congratulations to Spring Awakening!

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 11:10pm

Well, Not Barker, it technically is a cast recording I guess, but even if it weren't and were nominated in this category, I think you have to judge it fairly. Nominations are always put in wrong categories (Daisy Eagan in The Secret Garden, Nicole Kidman in The Hours placed in Leading Actress when Julianne Moore was nominated for Supporting Actress with more screentime in the same movie). Marion Cotillard won a Musical/Comedy Golden Globe for neither a musical (she wasn't singing) or comedic performance. Once nominations are set, you just have to judge equally, no matter who fits and who doesn't. I'm a believer that cast recordings of rock musicals are allowed to make pseudo rock albums. The original recordings of Hair and Godspell did this. Spring Awakening seemed to have gone this route or at least tried to.

~Steven

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 11:57pm

Ehh, I love Spring Awakening, but that cast recording does not represent the show you see onstage at the O'Neill very well. The album was hastily (and poorly) produced, with many lyrical and harmonical (according to spell check, I just invented that word!) changes. I feel like this would have been a show that was better preserved with a live recording, but that's a discussion for a whole other thread. Anyway, it's not as if this is any sort of surprise.

What exactly does this category judge? Is it just the album itself, or are they supposed to take into account the quality of the score itself?

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 12:04am

since when did anyone give a **** about the Grammys?

[Not Barker, Todd.]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 12:15am

I'm not saying its not a cast recording, I'm saying that it wasn't produced like one. And even if one is a fan of the "pseudo rock album" style, other have pointed out other flaws. I would rather give the award to a recording that brought some of the magic of the theatrical experience home to me (hence what the category is for) that just a "pseudo rock album".

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 12:21am

The Grammy for show album is never about the best theatrical score, or Sondheim would win every year, except this one cause COMPANY is not a new score and GREY GARDENS should have taken it,
But there was never a question that SPRING AWAKENING would win this year, the combo of Sheik and Broadway made it a lock.
Of course the not so good singing on the new COMPANY CD didn't help it's cause.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 12:32am

Well, actually, the songwriters do take home the Grammy if it's a new score. So in this case, Duncan Sheik got the Grammy for producing and writing the music and Steven Sater won the Grammy for writing the lyrics. If Company were to win, only the producer(s) would have won.

And don't worry, Not Barker, I'm not crucifying you for not liking the Spring Awakening cast recording. It is a flawed album, I'm not even going to protest that. Just playing devil's advocate.

~Steven

[Zeitoujo]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 10:58am

Yay Spring AWAKENING!! 8D

[Jonny boy]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 2:30pm

Of course Spring Awakening won!!! The best show won this year!!

[jv92]

Posted: 2/11/08 at 5:49pm

BobbyBubby-

I HATED how they (rather John Doyle) RUINED The Ladies for Walsh with the ridiculous "RISE, RISE, RISE!" screeching followed directly by the line- "Larry, I would like a cigarette." The Ladies is the eleven o'clocker in Company and Doyle missed the boat there. It needs to be applauded, concept or no concept.
(And it sounds WORSE on the album than it did at the Barrymore.)