Tamayra Gray/RENT/Last night- Page 6

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 12:32am

Heh, because the creaky-knees argument never grows old.

[jewishboy]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 12:35am

Yeah I shouldn't have gotten between Orange and BroadwayGirl, but I was bored. We should just let this thread RIP now.

[MotorTink]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 12:35am

I missed something, what in the hell are you talking about???

[misschung]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 12:46am

oh god, the creaky knees thing - you're not even over 40 yet!

[Craww]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 1:05am

Forget them knees. Anthony Rapp gon' break a hip.

[misschung]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 1:06am

dont jinx him! Between him in a full leg cast and Tamyra's short hair, there will be no suspension of disbelief left in the show

[MotorTink]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 1:07am

Well, Bebe is doing just fine with a hip replacement, Anthony should have nothing to worry about!

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 10:50am

jewishboy, you and I have a very different perspective on what it means to celebrate Larson's work, then. And why is my opinion "wrong"? It's my perspective on things, neither my perspective nor yours is "wrong" or right.

"Were they supposed to follow a flub with a stony faced shame and seriousness, or were they supposed to continue on with a theme of good humor?
Did I imply that? Because I really didn't mean to. I think it was more things like the "let me slap Idina's ass" or "let me pinch Taye's chest" moments that were off-putting to me, and the mere fact that the first time I felt like somebody was up there delivering something core was "Out Tonight." I don't think every flub that was brushed aside with humor was a bad thing, nor do I mean to imply that I think everything that happened in the entire night that wasn't done by Daphne or Fredi was somehow bad. And maybe it seems "convenient" the those were the two I generally enjoyed more than the others, but maybe the those two weren't taking the love fest so much for granted.

"Being able to say "here is when I didn't like Idina" and state it with such vehemence just seems like perception manipulation. Using the movie and Rent10 as scapegoats for your attempts to project a more balanced perspective and seem less biased. I'm sure that's not a conscious decision, but that's how it's always struck me from your posts.

Well, that's funny, because I never really go out of my way to say "here is when I didn't like Idina,"(read the thread, and you'll probably see it took a while before I said it) but my god, when somebody in a conversation is so utterly convinced that I'm incapable of noting her missteps (not an uncommon judgment on this board, unfortunately--the assumption is generally that I like Idina and therefore am an immature, biased moron, which probably drives me to post the way I do much of the time)and then the very things I think she was rather lackluster in come up in conversation, I think telling someone who asked that Rent 10 NOR the movie version of Rent are good ways to judge anyone in the original cast as they performed when the show opened is valid.

If I speak up, it's perception manipulation, if I don't, I'm biased. You can't win on these boards!

[jewishboy]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:24am

oops Updated On: 6/6/07 at 11:24 AM

[jewishboy]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:24am

Well, you are right, wrong was not the right word to use. But, to say that Adam Pascal was being pretentious by hitting a high note during Glory, when I think he was trying to make it the best it could be, is IMO not fair.

[Craww]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:57am

If I speak up, it's perception manipulation, if I don't, I'm biased. You can't win on these boards!

Here is the core of where our opinions wildly differ. A bias towards your favorite performers is absolutely implicit and even trying to deny it at all is where the perception manipulation comes in.

Nobody reasonable is going to mistake you for a mindless Idina fangirl as long as you continue to post intelligently. If there are judgements against you for anything it's not because of your affection for her, it's not because of the perception of Idina's fanbase, it's because of the rampant defensiveness.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 12:05pm

I agree, on a general level; I think loyalties become a problem when people try to deny them. Having them isn't an issue. It doesn't automatically make you dumb. Like Craww said, if you (editorial, because even in light of this particular incident, it's not about one person, it happens all the time), post intelligently and that's what matters. If you sound smart, people won't think you're a mindless fangirl. Admit them; know your opinions and be ready to back them up -- but backing them up is very different from expecting people to believe that you're totally objective. It's okay not to be if you handle it right. I think it's both a capability to recognize that performer's weaknesses and to recognize how your own bias creates a perspective that make for a devoted fan who people can still respect and regard as intelligent. It's like those people I come across who rattle on about how Raúl does no wrong and is just the nicest person ever -- I love the man's work to death, but I can recognize that he has a huge tendency to eat scenery for dinner, and he's nice, but far from my favorite person on the planet. And I'd hope people look at me as having a clear head because of that. Does that make sense?

Updated On: 6/6/07 at 12:05 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 1:52pm

It definitely does make sense. I think she did that though - she said a few times that she's aware of and ready to discuss Idina's faults. She said that Rent was the first time she had seen Idina perform anything, and therefore it would be impossible for her to have carried any preexisting bias with her going into it. From what I've read, I thought Broadwaygirls issues with Rent 10 were about the tone of the whole show, she didnt even mention Idina until responding to someone else.

But this is an interesting discussion that I think needs addressing, particularly on bww

Updated On: 6/6/07 at 01:52 PM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 6:34pm

Craww, I know exactly what you mean, and looking back at my posts, I think it came across as me denying ANY sort of bias towards Idina. I mean, of COURSE a bias exists, she's my favorite performer, and I think I've admitted I'd probably be thrilled to watch her read the phone book. But I also think I have a good head on my shoulders about the whole thing.

At the same time, orange was over-blowing the bias to the point of absurdity, as if my love for Idina's work completely over shadowed my ability to recognize any good that any performer did in that particular role after her. Which is absurd. And, oddly enough, not in line with the way I approached the discussion about the character of Maureen to begin with (as I pointed out to orange when the accusations were pointed, I was not the one who brought up Menzel to begin with).

"Nobody reasonable is going to mistake you for a mindless Idina fangirl as long as you continue to post intelligently."
There are a lot--A LOT--of unreasonable people on this board. I think I tend to be rather intelligent in my posts, if a little biting or vehement at times, but I can't tell you how many people respond to me like I'm a moron just because of the avatar. I see you're relatively new around here, so you weren't on the boards when Idina was in Wicked and her name became synonymous with "immature" and "moron" not to mention the show itself (as if there is nothing else noteworthy in her body of work, the assumption is often I like Idina and therefore also love Wicked and therefore have no taste, favor commercialism over smart theatre, etc etc).

Updated On: 6/6/07 at 06:34 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 7:25pm

So you now say that your posts came across as you denying any bias (which, they did: "Like I said, I'm not sure what my so-called bias as far as Idina in Rent are."), then in the same post accuse me of "overblowing" it? Well, considering you didn't outright say until the last post that you had any bias towards Idina- even as a fan- myself merely saying you had one is hardly "overblown." I later was sarcastic about it; I treated as absurd because your denial (or as you said, what "came across as" denial) was absurd. But if you now admit your posts came across wrong, you can't fault me for interpreting them wrongly as a result.

Updated On: 6/6/07 at 07:25 PM

[Becky]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 7:44pm

In addition, there were so many moments and exchanges between them onstage that aren't evident through secondhand viewings. They were up there having a great time with their longtime friends and colleagues and celebrating the experience they began together.

I just wanted to agree with this whole heartedly. I was there - right up front - and most of what I remember is the touching exchanges that wouldn't be seen by those that weren't there: The cast sitting next to each other in chairs - grabbing hands...grabbing knees...stealing glances/smiles teary eyed...Taye's face lighting up when Adam hit that "Glory" note...Idina wiping her eyes as she looked on...the pure joy *pouring* out of Jesse...the many hugs during blackouts...and I could go on and on.

**Some have accused Idina of "phoning it in", but I never got that impression at all. She seemed to be reacting to a surreal and emotional night. I watched her a lot and there were some very, very touching exchanges with her.....

I agree with whoever said it was a celebration of the show - not a full characterization. Yes, I look back on the show with many great memories - but not because I paid a lot of money (as was previously suggested.) It was a night I'll never forget because the cast and energy in the theater made it so.
Updated On: 6/6/07 at 07:44 PM

[misschung]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 7:47pm

You're so lucky

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 7:50pm

I wanted to touch on that idea, too, but I wasn't sure how to do so without overuse of cliché. It was a celebration of the piece, not about perfection, and I think they did absolutely honor everything that show is that night. I still, over a year later, tell people that one of the only ways I know how to describe it is to say that it was like walking into my wildest dream. It's rare that you can feel energy being exchanged from the stage to the audience and just circulating the room like you could that night. There was so much joy and love there -- from one cast member to another, from the cast to Jonathan's work, amongst the fans, and between everyone. So rare, in fact, that sometimes it still feels so very surreal. You can't get those things from a bootleg; you can get the performances, which, while they may not have been the best they ever were... still somehow were perfect for what they were there to do. I've been to a lot of performances that were about showing love for a particular piece, but I don't think I have ever been in a room so filled with love as I was in the Nederlander that night.

As predicted, list of clichés. But worth mention, I think.

Updated On: 6/6/07 at 07:50 PM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:14pm

orange, the accusation that I don't like others in the role BECAUSE of Menzel what was overblown. About my denying bias...you're right, but I think in my mind, I was just reacting the the part of it I just mentioned. Why would my being partial to Menzel as a performer make me NOT like others in the role? That's what didn't make sense to me.


In regards to what you have to say about Rent 10, Emcee and Becky, perhaps I'm freakishly unsentimental or freakishly too in love with the story, libretto, music, and characters of RENT more than I ever was of any cast's love for one another or this weird phenomenon that has become "Rent" (the fans, the various casts over the years, etc etc etc), that still, to me, seems like celebrating...themselves instead of the work. To me, it sounds a tad on the self-serving side. To me, celebrating the work means having that incredible, dire need to do nothing more than to tell that story and portray these characters as if it were the most important and meaningful thing on the planet, and portray the messages of a man who passed to soon through his creations. I think that's what's so special about what did happen 11 years ago and in performances like Will Chase's. That, to me, is a greater celebration of the work.
Updated On: 6/6/07 at 11:14 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:20pm

I'm also perhaps freakishly sentimental. I think it just comes down to that for me, Rent 10 was their party. It was their night to celebrate, and I didn't think they did any disrespect to the work in doing so. I don't know; I don't think I would have wanted it to be a rigid run-through, or whatever you're suggesting might be a better celebration of the work as opposed to themselves. I think their love for the work came across really well, and that, of course, their bonds to each other are a huge part OF that, you know? I mean, people go on about the magic of the OBC, and so much of it is because of what they went through together -- they maintain their somewhat legendary status as a group, so I felt like it was appropriate to celebrate that, too. There's a lot synonymous in the whole thing, to me, at least; a lot of lines blur. I'm terribly in love with the material itself, but these people are so deeply tied to it, that to me, it all felt right. I totally respect what you're saying, I just don't agree with it, probably because I feel like you're coming at it from an actor's perspective -- which is totally cool. It's just not something I have.

PS, Will Chase as Roger is something I'd love to see again.

[MotorTink]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:26pm

I wasn't there (although I really wanted to be) but I have seen the video (popped up on my computer screen against my will I swear...pesky viruses). I loved it. I wasn't expecting them to go word for word, scene for scene. While I was pulling for Adam in plaid pants, I wasn't too upset. It made it special and unique, and you could tell the love and fun going on. That's all i could ask for!

[Becky]

Posted: 6/6/07 at 11:38pm

celebrating the work means having that incredible, dire need to do nothing more than to tell that story and portray these characters as if it were the most important and meaningful thing on the planet

Just posing a question here, but how did you expect them to do what you're asking when they only had a days notice? They thought it was going to be a concert-style performance. I gave them a heck of a lot of credit for pulling off what they did.....

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 6/7/07 at 12:02am

Emcee (and Becky, this goes for your response as well), I don't mean to suggest a rigid, line-for-line smooth run through, especially given the amount of time they had. Just...more of a concern with the characters and the story. And to avoid going into my abstract, incomprehensible actor talk, I should probably leave it at that. Just...as I mentioned earlier, there was something very different to me about the way Daphne, for example, went about it than the others much of the time.

[broadwayboy1017]

Posted: 6/7/07 at 12:10am

i wonder how she is
i would like to see her but id like to go this summer when the original leads are in

[broadwayboy1017]

Posted: 6/7/07 at 12:10am

do u think i should buy tickets now for this summer?