The Judge's "Johanna" and the Sweeney Film..- Page 2

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:09am

Well, in many ways it's the same scene as Frollo's song "Hellfire" in the Disney version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame, which somehow walked a way with a G (!) rating.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 11:55am

Proof that the movie can still get a PG-13 with self-flagellation and masturbation:

You, Me, and Dupree -- PG 13 (masturbation scene)
DaVinci Code -- PG 13 (Flagellation - and graphic at that - scene).

NC-17 isn't even in the same ballpark. No worries about that at all.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 12:01pm

I think Sweeney will end up R though. It's going around that Burton is pushing really hard for an R rating.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 3:57pm

Reading the IMDB boards made me so depressed. Between the Harry Potter fangirls, the Pirates of the Caribbean fangirls, the Tim Burton/Hot Topic fangirls...this is seriously depressing. I really don't want Sweeney Todd to become the next emo-mall-trend/marketing nightmare; it's too good for those obnoxious lemmings.

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 4:31pm

I agree, skittles, but I think that's going to happen.

God, I hope they don't include Judge's Johanna.

I think they're going to cut "Wait." It doesn't seem to have a lot of relevance.

[Weez]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 4:33pm

With regards to the rating, I doubt the Judge's 'Johanna' would push it up to an NC-17. Burton would have to have Rickman do some seriously nasty self-flagellation s*** to get it that high, and as 'The Da Vinci Code' didn't get an NC-17, I doubt 'Sweeney' would.

However, much as I enjoy being creeped out by the song, and much as I fervently wish they'd included it in the Royal Festival Hall's run, I can totally see why, when you're making cuts, it has to be the first thing to go. Scenes and songs need to advance plot or character. If they bring nothing new, then no matter how amazing they are, they get cut.

What does this song teach us? That the Judge has a thing for Johanna and it's a little bit wrong. You don't need a whole song telling you that though, it's covered entirely by the whole "hi daddy", "hi sweetie; gosh you look nice in that dress", "what's up then, daddy?", "I'm going to marry you, 'kay?", "um, NOT okay!" scene in the middle of Anthony's 'Johanna'.

If this song makes it into the finished film, I'll be VERY surprised.

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 4:41pm

I'm sure this movie is going to aim for a PG-13. There's not one Burton film that hasn't become insanely fangirly, and this one isn't going to be any different. I'm hoping it will get an R though, because in a sick sort of way, I don't want anyone I know seeing this film. Sweeney is MINE, you hear me?

[Weez]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 4:50pm

I'm torn. I'm totally with everyone not wanting teenyboppers to get their paws on it (because that *will* happen, and it *will* be sickening), and wanting to keep it special for ourselves. But on the other hand, it'll be great fun saying "yah, I've loved it for years, of course you can't really beat Victor Garber's Anthony, but then it was wonderful at the Royal Festival Hall apart from the s****y sound problems, and do you like my Broadway revival t-shirt?" (and also I'd totally buy any good merchandise). At the very least it'll be nice to have people understand what I'm talking about for once... ;_;

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:12pm

I get that.

*Builds up on Sweeney revival merch, so people know she liked Sweeney before everyone else*

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:26pm

Wasn't Hunchback the first Disney movie to ever get a PG rating? Or was that The Black Cauldron...

I wouldn't mind if Sweeney Todd was a massive lemming hit. At least people are being lemmings about something that's actually good for once (although I do subscribe to the church of Harry Potter).

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:31pm

Yeah, but the film could still be a load of crap.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:34pm

Hey, if it's good it could get people away from Wicked for five minutes!

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:36pm

True, true.

[Taryn]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 5:41pm

Weez, I think you're underestimating the character development that happens during the Judge's Johanna. Without it, there is no conflict in his character. There's no sense of any opposition within himself. Sure, he obviously picks the wrong side to act on, but I think it develops an important layer and makes him a far more interesting character.

[Matthewjames]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 7:06pm

they can't cut it out

no worse that the "Da Vinci Code" scene

[Weez]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 7:16pm

Oh, certainly, when you're actually taking the whole show into account and savouring it, then it is important to have it for the Judge's character development.

But the Sweeneyboppers ain't gonna care about the Judge's personal internal conflicts, and the film isn't going to benefit from him whipping himself and getting off on it for several minutes.

Sorry, I just boiled that all down over-simply, didn't I? It's getting late and I can't do a full-fledged reasoning. I'll happily state here and now that I'm confident it won't make it into the finished film though. I'm awake enough to do that. And if I'm wrong, well, it's not like that's never happened before. :)

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 7:51pm

Hunchback of Notre Dame was rated G. I have it on video.

Ronin, while yes, it is better they obsess over something good, they could care less whether or not it's good. They're not going to acknowledge the genius of the work itself; they're going to come out of it saying "Wow, wasn't Johnny Depp hot?"

[bwayballerina]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 9:49pm

I'm a little confused about this whole Judge's Johanna thing... I was listening to the revival CD recently, and there were two versions of Johanna- one by Anthony, and one later by the Judge. Is this (the Judge's version) the same song we're talking about that was cut in previews? Or is the song on the revival CD something else? (And if it's not the Johanna song that was cut, was the cut song just a reprise of Anthony's version, or something else?)

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 9:53pm

The Judge's Johanna was cut in previews of the original production because it was to uncomfortable for audiences. It was included on the OBCR at Sondheim's request.

It was added back in to the revival (and other stagings before it) and kept past opening (and recorded).

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:02pm

Actually, there are 3 versions of Johanna on the revival CD. Anthony, the judge and then Sweeney's in act 2.

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 7/8/07 at 10:09pm

I think Burton wants an R rating so the 12 year old Depp fans don't talk everytime an actor sings.

[MiracleElixir]

Posted: 7/9/07 at 12:47am

Burton isn't afraid of R ratings. "Sleepy Hollow" and "Ed Wood" both received R ratings. He'll probably fight for an R rating on "Sweeney," but given the high pedigree of the project and the star power, I wouldn't be surprised if the studio demands a PG-13 cut for maximum box office.

[worrell4077]

Posted: 7/9/07 at 3:58pm

"Annnnnnywayyyy... Kiss Me/Ladies in their Sensitivies is the most glorious quartet in the musical theatre cannon. Let's hope it makes the cut. I doubt, it though."

I don't know if they both will be in, but in an interview with Timothy Spall he did mentioned that The Beadle has one song in the movie, so I'm thinking that will be Ladies In Their Sensitivites(sp).

Sweeney to me, seems like it should be rated R or at least PG-13.