The Judge's "Johanna" and the Sweeney Film.. — Page 2

Proof that the movie can still get a PG-13 with self-flagellation and masturbation:

You, Me, and Dupree -- PG 13 (masturbation scene)
DaVinci Code -- PG 13 (Flagellation - and graphic at that - scene).

NC-17 isn't even in the same ballpark. No worries about that at all.

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Reading the IMDB boards made me so depressed. Between the Harry Potter fangirls, the Pirates of the Caribbean fangirls, the Tim Burton/Hot Topic fangirls...this is seriously depressing. I really don't want Sweeney Todd to become the next emo-mall-trend/marketing nightmare; it's too good for those obnoxious lemmings.

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With regards to the rating, I doubt the Judge's 'Johanna' would push it up to an NC-17. Burton would have to have Rickman do some seriously nasty self-flagellation s*** to get it that high, and as 'The Da Vinci Code' didn't get an NC-17, I doubt 'Sweeney' would.

However, much as I enjoy being creeped out by the song, and much as I fervently wish they'd included it in the Royal Festival Hall's run, I can totally see why, when you're making cuts, it has to be the first thing to go. Scenes and songs need to advance plot or character. If they bring nothing new, then no matter how amazing they are, they get cut.

What does this song teach us? That the Judge has a thing for Johanna and it's a little bit wrong. You don't need a whole song telling you that though, it's covered entirely by the whole "hi daddy", "hi sweetie; gosh you look nice in that dress", "what's up then, daddy?", "I'm going to marry you, 'kay?", "um, NOT okay!" scene in the middle of Anthony's 'Johanna'.

If this song makes it into the finished film, I'll be VERY surprised.

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I'm torn. I'm totally with everyone not wanting teenyboppers to get their paws on it (because that *will* happen, and it *will* be sickening), and wanting to keep it special for ourselves. But on the other hand, it'll be great fun saying "yah, I've loved it for years, of course you can't really beat Victor Garber's Anthony, but then it was wonderful at the Royal Festival Hall apart from the s****y sound problems, and do you like my Broadway revival t-shirt?" (and also I'd totally buy any good merchandise). At the very least it'll be nice to have people understand what I'm talking about for once... ;_;

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Wasn't Hunchback the first Disney movie to ever get a PG rating? Or was that The Black Cauldron...

I wouldn't mind if Sweeney Todd was a massive lemming hit. At least people are being lemmings about something that's actually good for once (although I do subscribe to the church of Harry Potter).

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Hey, if it's good it could get people away from Wicked for five minutes!

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Weez, I think you're underestimating the character development that happens during the Judge's Johanna. Without it, there is no conflict in his character. There's no sense of any opposition within himself. Sure, he obviously picks the wrong side to act on, but I think it develops an important layer and makes him a far more interesting character.

Oh, certainly, when you're actually taking the whole show into account and savouring it, then it is important to have it for the Judge's character development.

But the Sweeneyboppers ain't gonna care about the Judge's personal internal conflicts, and the film isn't going to benefit from him whipping himself and getting off on it for several minutes.

Sorry, I just boiled that all down over-simply, didn't I? It's getting late and I can't do a full-fledged reasoning. I'll happily state here and now that I'm confident it won't make it into the finished film though. I'm awake enough to do that. And if I'm wrong, well, it's not like that's never happened before. :)

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I'm a little confused about this whole Judge's Johanna thing... I was listening to the revival CD recently, and there were two versions of Johanna- one by Anthony, and one later by the Judge. Is this (the Judge's version) the same song we're talking about that was cut in previews? Or is the song on the revival CD something else? (And if it's not the Johanna song that was cut, was the cut song just a reprise of Anthony's version, or something else?)

Actually, there are 3 versions of Johanna on the revival CD. Anthony, the judge and then Sweeney's in act 2.

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Burton isn't afraid of R ratings. "Sleepy Hollow" and "Ed Wood" both received R ratings. He'll probably fight for an R rating on "Sweeney," but given the high pedigree of the project and the star power, I wouldn't be surprised if the studio demands a PG-13 cut for maximum box office.