The Last 5 Years love- Page 3

[ahmelie]

Posted: 10/16/06 at 3:47pm

I love Jason Robert Brown, and I love Sherie Rene Scott. The Last Five Years is a genius marriage of my two loves. I mostly listen to musicals from the 70s-80s but this is one of the few more recent musicals that I listen to all the time, it's beautiful.

[Jud Faginsky]

Posted: 10/16/06 at 4:04pm

I've been familiar with this show for several years from the CD, and I finally got to see it this summer in Sacramento. It was fabulous. I went with a bunch of people who didn't know anything about the show, and they were not confused about the time sequencing at all. The show is essentially two monologues, with each character alone on stage most of the time. However, occasionally the other character appears to be sung to. But the interesting thing about this is the way they act. They essentially act as a prop to be sung to, but their body language suggests that they are in their own time. So when Jamie is singing the Schmuel Song, Cathy is on stage being sung to, but she is acting like she is in her time period, which is kind of bored and uninterested. It was really fascinating. And I hated the Schmuel Song on the CD, but after seeing it performed it's definitely one of my favorite songs. It really needs the action to appreciate it. So give it another listen if you don't like it. And imagine that Jamie is singing it to Cathy as a Christmas present (which is what he is doing) even though he is Jewish. It's an amazingly loving and beautiful song. All in all, I enjoyed this show as much as any show I've seen in a long time.

[caitlincanfly]

Posted: 10/17/06 at 6:25pm

I bought the recording of L5Y about a year ago, and fell instantly in love. I copied the CD for 2 of my friends, and from that point on, it pretty much became our favorite above all.

The songs are enchanting and emotional and real and beautiful.
I am also a pretty big Jason Robert Brown fan in general. That man is a genius.

[DRSisLove]

Posted: 10/17/06 at 9:19pm

My dad when to the Spring Valley JCC.

I think I died the first time I heard that.

[BroadwayBaby21]

Posted: 10/17/06 at 9:24pm

My college's student musical theatre group just did a MuThru (a listen-through actually) of Last Five Years, and now I am hooked.
Seriously, my entire dorm is now in love with this amazing musical.
It makes you laugh, it makes you cry... and it's great. And especially when you know the relationship is doomed, and at the end when Cathy sings I Can Do Better Than That and Goodbye Until Tomorrow, it just has such a great impact.

My favorite songs? "Climbing Uphill" "Nobody Needs to Know" and "Goodbye Until Tomorrow"

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/17/06 at 10:37pm

JRB is my favorite musical composer and L5Y is my second favorite show of his (not that there's a huge list to choose from though, haha.) "Goodbye Until Tomorrow" ALWAYS makes me cry. And "The Next Ten Minutes" is one of the most gorgeous songs ever. I think it's a very brilliant show. I didn't like Norbert Leo Butz at all until I heard him in the recording.

I'm different from most L5Y fans though because I actually think Jamie's a huge jerk and he was more in the wrong than Cathy was. I don't get how anyone can defend his cheating on her. I mean, come on, he leaves to be with another woman on her BIRTHDAY. And, as demonstrated by "Nobody Needs to Know," he doesn't really feel guilty about it. He just rationalizes it.

*prepares to run from the Jamie fans because she's had this conversation before and it didn't go too well*

Oh, and I second the Parade thing. It's one of my favorite musicals, despite how historically inaccurate it is.

Updated On: 10/17/06 at 10:37 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 3:15pm

I'm different from most L5Y fans though because I actually think Jamie's a huge jerk and he was more in the wrong than Cathy was. I don't get how anyone can defend his cheating on her. I mean, come on, he leaves to be with another woman on her BIRTHDAY. And, as demonstrated by "Nobody Needs to Know," he doesn't really feel guilty about it. He just rationalizes it.

haha wow, that is SO different than how I feel! but its interesting to hear the opposing opinion :) I do def get what you mean.. I mean it IS very sucky that he's cheating on her and everything. I think the reason I personally feel worse for him though is that, basically throughout the entire show, even IN the end, he's still so supportive and sweet to her. And see, to me he just sounds so SAD in nobody needs to know (thats norbert and his brilliant acting than anything else, it prob wouldn't have the same affect with a worse actor). Like, what he's SAYING is very... bad.. but when you LISTEN to it, for me at least he seems to feel soo guilty about what he's doing because he really DOES still love her. And the other reason I feel so much for him is because of everything he says in If I Didn't Believe In You. Its just such a stronger argument than anything Cathy's said. Because, the way its written, it really DOES seem like he's trying so so hard to support her until the very end, and she's just constantly unhappy. I dont feel like she's done anything WRONG, but its just hes trying so hard to help her be happy and she really DOESNT seem to want him to be able to do what makes HIM happy. So I guess I just see his point of view better. I def dont think he's a PERFECT character or anything- he def is a little.. woman-crazy, as is illustrated by A Mirical Would Happen, but its just so many of his songs are so sweet toward cathy that it makes it pretty darn easy for me to overlook the other stuff. I dont know... writing it down it sounds pretty pathetic to try and make exuses for what he's doing, but LISTENING to it thats just how I FEEL :) haha

but yeah, I can definitely see your side of it too!

[Jud Faginsky]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 7:57pm

About three years ago, the DJ for Broadway world radio - Kris - had a website through live365.com called Modern Broadway. On that site he had a review posted of The Last Five Years that was really an incredible review. It talked a lot about how the music worked, how Cathy answers questions in the music in the early part of the show that Jamie will ask in a later part of the show. I wasn't super familiar with the show then, so I didn't understand a lot of this, but it was clear that Kris had really studied the music in great detail. Does anyone have a copy of this review that you could post. It would make a fascinating discussion. Does Kris ever read any of these boards?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 8:03pm

snl89: I disagree with the idea that Jamie supported Cathy. Sure, he sang a gorgeous song about how he believed in her, but when it came down to it did he ever see one of her shows (which she brings up in "See, I'm Smiling")? Actions speak louder than words.

Posted: 10/18/06 at 8:13pm

I honestly don't see how anyone could say Cathy is more to blame for the demise of their relationship than Jamie. My friend and I came to the conclusion that when writing the show, JRB felt the need to perhaps shoulder more of the blame in writing the character of Jamie as the bigger jerk, so to speak, rather than make himself look bad for throwing the blame on the character of who represents his ex-wife. Of course, either way, he doesn't come out looking great.

Yes, Cathy was a bit overly needy, but considering her husband's success and the fact he had no qualms showing it off, can you really blame her? Also, I don't think there's any comparison between having an affair and being generally needy - I realize the latter led to the former happening, but one doesn't even get a sense that Jamie legitimately wanted to work at their problems. Jamie sings "If I Didn't Believe in You" out of desperation, not admiration, and the lyrics are generally self-absorbed. He sings the song because he wants something, not because he genuinely wants to express his love to her. And as SporkGoddess mentioned, the song comes down to being all talk and no action.

Honestly, snl, I think you're being swayed by the fact that Norbert plays the role more than the material itself. I suppose one could make the argument that they're both equally to blame, but I can't really fathom the argument that Cathy is more to blame than Jamie based strictly upon the material.

[Josephine2]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 8:13pm

I saw it in the Chicago area before its Broadway run. I enjoyed it, but I really wish I could have seen Sherie in it.

[snl89]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 8:21pm

snl89: I disagree with the idea that Jamie supported Cathy. Sure, he sang a gorgeous song about how he believed in her, but when it came down to it did he ever see one of her shows (which she brings up in "See, I'm Smiling")? Actions speak louder than words.

I did realize that actually, and its a very good point! It actually did make me question whether or not I really DID like jamie, but then, thinking about it, did cathy ever really go to anything for him either? It just kinda seems like maybe it went both ways, you know? Not saying that really justifys anything, but it seems like both of them were a bit self centered, and that def seems to be part of the reason their relationship didn't work in the end. Because niether of them were willing to compromise. So.. I guess I feel they were equally at fault? haha

oh, and now that I think about it... I wonder.. do you think jamie maybe started out actually going and visiting more often and then it wasnt toward the end when they were already were having lots of trouble that he stopped? I cant really tell actually.. because obviously in summer in ohio and stuff she's talking about wanting him to come, but do we ever really find out if he DID come at those times earlier on? For the record, I'm not generally too good at understanding lyrics really really well right off the bad haha, so it could totally be really obvious and I'm just missing it lol. But it just seems to me like maybe he could have started out going there a lot and everything, and then it wasn't till later on that he stopped coming because they were already growing apart?

edit: nevermind, she DOES talk about him never seeing any of her shows, doesn't she? So, yeah, scratch the early-on supportivness thought lol


and yes, for the record, I am MAJORLY going on norbert's delivery of the character, much moreso than the character itself :) because norbert just PLAYS him in such a caring way that how could you NOT love him? hehe. If someone else played him I'm sure I'd like him a WHOLE lot less :P

Updated On: 10/18/06 at 08:21 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 11:29pm

But if you're talking about Jamie as a character based on the material, how Norbert played him (or sang him, seeing as you didn't even see him play the role, you just have the CD), no matter how endearing, shouldn't make a difference. If you're basing your entire opinion of Jamie as a character on how much you loved Norbert singing the role, then your opinion doesn't fit in with this discussion if everyone else is discussing the material, not the actors. I mean, Jamie isn't Norbert.

Updated On: 10/18/06 at 11:29 PM

[mauriposa]

Posted: 10/18/06 at 11:41pm

I'm enjoying this debate very much. I actually argue this point with the friend who got me into this show in the first place. She tends to empathize with Jamie (but she's a writer) whereas I always take sides with Cathy (because I'm married and can never justify a man who is cheating on his wife).

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 12:27am

I think that this show's one glaring flaw is that it's so uneven. Cathy comes across as relatively blameless in the whole scheme of things. Jamie is selfish (see "If I Didn't Believe in You") and unwilling to give anything of himself to make the relationship work. Cathy's situation is more sympathetic, but the part is also underwritten. I never feel like Cathy's songs are a glimpse into an actual person, which is probably because Jason Robert Brown was writing from the male perspective. It feels almost like Cathy is who Jamie thinks she is, if that makes any sense.

[Jud Faginsky]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 7:21pm

Cathy is who Jamie thinks she is. That makes complete sense. But I also think that Jamie is who Cathy thinks he is. I came out with a much different perspective after seeing the show this summer than I had from just listening to the CD. Each of the characters is essentially doing a monologue. Occasionally the other character shows up just as a prop, but doesn't really interact with the singer. So in a sense, each character gets to dream up whatever they want the other character to be.
Interesting discussion about Norbert vs. Jamie. The man I saw play Jamie was excellent, and you totally identified with him, and he wasn't Norbert. So I think it is really the character that you are identifying with. Jamie loves Cathy a lot. He's just weak. And self absorbed. But he loves her a lot. It's really evident on stage in both The Schmuel Song and The Next Ten Minutes. He loves her. But the marriage didn't work. That happens sometimes.

[snl89]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 8:09pm

But if you're talking about Jamie as a character based on the material, how Norbert played him (or sang him, seeing as you didn't even see him play the role, you just have the CD), no matter how endearing, shouldn't make a difference. If you're basing your entire opinion of Jamie as a character on how much you loved Norbert singing the role, then your opinion doesn't fit in with this discussion if everyone else is discussing the material, not the actors. I mean, Jamie isn't Norbert.

Well, I'm def NOT just going on the fact that norberts a really pretty singer and I really like the way he sang the songs (I DO, but thats besides the point) - that's not what I meant at all :) I just meant that, having only ever heard him DO the part, of course I'm judging based on his performance. And yes, I really DO believe that a performance comes through on a recording. Granted if there are things that he does in the show (physical things) that greatly contradict the way he comes across on the cd, then I apologize for making assumptions when obviously SEEING the show is a very big part of the experience, and I def havn't done that. But, judging by how most shows tend to be, I'm guessing that proobably doesnt happen too often, and that the character of Jamie on the cd is portrayed in the same way as the character of Jamie in the show. When I said I was basing it on Norbert, I simply meant that I'm basing it on how HE played the character- not that I'm not thinking about the character at all and simply thinking about how pretty norbert sings

and I'd also just like to take a minute to thank you guys for actually endulging me with this debate! haha, I love stuff like this, and its interesting to hear that a lot of people sympathize with Cathy more :) and sweetestsiren, I think you put it perfectly! I think the main reason I relate more to jamie is just that, as a character, Cathy IS kind of underwritten. With Jamie you really get a sense of how he's feeling and what he's going through, and with Cathy you kind of...get that sense a little, but the songs just aren't as penatrating as Jamie's songs. Even Still Hurting- its a BEAUTIFUL song, but if you listen to that and then listen to If I Didn't Believe in You right after, for me at least, I'd feel a lot more listening to If I Didn't Believe in You. Because he's actually making a point- he's MAKING you feel bad for him (whether or not he's doing it completely out of selfishness or not, he'd doing it- or at least trying to) wheras with Still Hurting she's basically just singing about being depressed. There's nothing to really make the listener see her point of view. The only song that REALLY does that for Cathy is See I'm Smiling- and that one does do it well, but the problem is then you get to the end and you hear Jamie's side of it, and you start thinking maybe thats closer to what really happened- or maybe not- you really dont know. Maybe they're both equally innaccurate, they prob are, but I just know I personally got more pulled into Jamies side of it. But yeah, thats exactly what it is I think.. Cathy's just underwritten in comparison to Jamie :)

[Jud Faginsky]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 8:15pm

I think Cathy may seem underwritten because of the fact that she goes backwards in time. The actor playing Jamie gets to develop the character in a normal way, moving forward in time, so that things he hints at in the beginning can be fully developed later on. But Cathy is going backwards, so she is showing the resulting behavior at the end of the show, when you won't see the buildup until later in the show. This is a much tougher role to play I feel. She's giving you the payoff before she gives you the deposit. Try listening to all of Cathy's songs in chronological order, and see if that makes a difference. I think Cathy goes through major changes, but it is harder to see them because of the reverse issue. The same thing happens in Merrily We Roll Along with every character. The music develops in reverse too, as both Sondheim and JRB are masters at this.

[best we know x]

Posted: 10/19/06 at 8:18pm

"If you liked L5Y, I highly recommend Parade. It is my favorite of Brown's scores, which is really saying something."

Parade is so brilliant. I bought it after I bought Last 5 Years, and I absolutely fell in love with it.

[ygiles]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 5:57am

It's interesting that so many people are buying into Jamie having an affair. I've never read that from the show at all. There's never anything in the text to say he did anymore but look.

Cathy says 'play with your little girlfriends' i.e impress/flirt with his hangers-on, but there's never any concrete evidence that he had an affair, IMO.

[Jon]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 8:09am

Ummm.... the entire song "Nobody Needs to Know" is sung by Jamie to a girl in his bed who is NOT KATHY. Have you ever actually listened to the lyrics?

[snl89]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 1:25pm

yeahh, its pretty darn clear that he's having an affair in Nobody Needs to Know- I mean even just the title kind of gives that away haha.

[DayDreamer]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 2:03pm

The beauty of the show is that, like in real life, people will take sides with each party, and to each side it will seem that the other was wrong. And like in real life, there is no 'right' answer.


Hey, kid - good morning
You look like an angel
I don't remember when we fell asleep
We should get up, kid
Cathy is waiting...

That's not clear enough?

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 2:55pm

I saw a regional production of the show last year, without having heard any of the music, and I found it absolutely riveting. I really love how the progression of the songs makes your view of both characters change. (That's how it worked for me, anyway.) I felt like I really knew these people.

When Jamie sings the aforementioned lyric, "We should get up, kid, Cathy is waiting..." Right when he sang "Cathy," I'm pretty sure my jaw actually dropped, and I distinctly remember the thought, "You douche!" coming into my head.

[GreenGirl22406]

Posted: 10/20/06 at 3:07pm

Oh good lord, I love the soundtrack. One of my absolute favorite songs is A Miracle Would Happen, and I love A Summer in Ohio. Norbert Leo Butz = my life, and he gets to display his voice so much more in this than in DRS or Wicked. Sherrie Rene Scott is also amazing, and I love that their only duet is The Next Ten Minutes because it's the centeral point in both their stories and it's just so pretty... okay, over. I<3 The Last 5 Years