The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion — Page 2

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#26

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/26/14 at 8:49pm

I really enjoyed the pre Broadway version. That would be my favorite.

Just give the world Love. - S. Wonder

#27

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/26/14 at 8:57pm

Wildhorn is neither a fool nor a hack. He knows exactly who his shows and his songs appeal to, and Broadway is not his target audience- it is only an advertising platform to launch his shows into greater visibility. I think he's the first Broadway entrepreneur specifically working with the post-MTI theatrical market in mind, where having a show that runs for fifty years on the Great White Way is less important than having a show that will perpetually be produced in many companies across the world.

#28

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 12:14pm

I don't understand the purpose of having Lost in the Darkness follow I Need to Know other than trying to shoehorn in every song from every version. Same with the inclusion of both Good 'N' Evil with Bring on the Men (though the original production used both, Good and Evil was in the second act as a song for the proprietor of the club, but was cut from the show until it replaced Bring on the Men for the Broadway production).

Personally, I've always felt Facade happened too early. There's not really anything to tie its message to the book at the point it occurs. I always thought it should happen after the engagement party as a segue into the club where we see members of the aristocracy make their way into the club.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#29

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 12:33pm

Anyone seen the tour? The set design actually looks pretty interesting.

#30

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 12:46pm

Loved the original but hated the recent revival especially the hideous staging of "Confrontation".

Poster Emeritus

Updated On: 10/27/14 at 12:46 PM

#31

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 2:07pm

"I don't understand the purpose of having Lost in the Darkness follow I Need to Know other than trying to shoehorn in every song from every version. Same with the inclusion of both Good 'N' Evil with Bring on the Men (though the original production used both, Good and Evil was in the second act as a song for the proprietor of the club, but was cut from the show until it replaced Bring on the Men for the Broadway production)."

I don't particularly like "I Need to Know", but my reasoning for putting it before "Lost in the Darkness" is that INtK is a "want song", and LitD is a "motivation song". In other words, I Need to Know explains WHAT Jekyll wants, and Lost in the Darkness explains WHY he wants what he wants. Having their order reversed - which is what happens, I believe, in the new Broadway revival - hasn't made a whole lot of sense to me because you're putting the "why" before the "what".

As far as including both "Good 'N Evil" and "Bring on the Men", the former serves to further Jekyll's quest and give him the inspiration for doing what he does (which is why it's never made sense to me to use Bring on the Men as a replacement for it), while the latter's more Cabaret style struck me as being a perfect counterpoint to both The Girls of the Night and Dangerous Game. It's a 'lead-in' song for both, as you have Lucy entertaining people with what is essentially an "invitation song", joining the other girls of the Red Rat in lamenting their situation (somewhat similarly to what was done in the Les Mis movie by putting "I Dreamed a Dream" - clearly a "lament song" - after "Lovely Ladies", which serves as a 'set-up song' for the "lament song" that is IDaD), and then falling into bed with Hyde in "Dangerous Game".

Updated On: 10/27/14 at 02:07 PM

#32

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 4:35pm

I've said this many times before but I still think the Broadway version had the best book and the best orchestrations out of all the other versions. The only thing I would have changed was to include "Bring on the Men" in place of "Good 'N' Evil." To me the whole show is about good and evil and I don't find it necessary to have a song about it. I think audiences get it already at that point. "Bring on the Men" provides a little relief from the tone of the rest of the show and score like most good bar songs in musicals tend to do.

The songs that got cut like "I Need to Know" and "Girls of the Night" are great, but they don't forward the action, they tells us things that we already know and they make an already long show even longer. Robin Phillips did a great job trimming the fat and creating a version of the show that wasn't overstuffed. It's a shame that MTI does not license the Broadway version.

#33

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 4:49pm

The purpose of "Good 'N Evil", narratively, is to give Jekyll the inspiration for developing the formula that he does (as I noted earlier).

#34

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 5:00pm

The Broadway book gives Jekyll a line about the song helping him. More specifically, helping him come to the realization that he has to use himself as a test subject, but it is not an element that the plot requires. Obviously, if the board is unwilling to aid, the choice to use the formula on himself is clear. His inspiration is and should always be his father.

#35

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/27/14 at 6:26pm

- Act One -
Prologue
Lost in the Darkness
Jekyll's Plea (Board of Governors)
Pursue the Truth
I Need to Know
Facade
Emma's Reasons
Take Me as I Am
Letting Go
Facade (Reprise)
No One Knows Who I Am
Good 'N Evil
Here's to the Night
Now There is No Choice
This is the Moment
First Transformation
Alive
His Work and Nothing More
Sympathy, Tenderness
Someone Like You
Alive (Reprise)

- Act Two -
Murder, Murder
Once Upon a Dream
Streak of Madness (Obsession)
In His Eyes
Facade (Reprise #2)
Dangerous Game
The Way Back
A New Life
Sympathy, Tenderness (Reprise)
Confrontation
Facade (Reprise #3)
Finale

Prologue (Lost in the Darkness). Then establish conflict (Board of Governors) and introduce the characters motivations (I Need to Know, structurally the "I Want" song is best in the 3rd or 4th song slot, can't sing the song too early). Next step is to introduce the theme of the show (Facade.) Flow into the Engagement Party and there, you've got the show. The original Broadway had it right for the most part.

#36

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 3:00am

Nice structure. Normally I'd agree with you that the "I want" song works better three or four songs in, but "I Need to Know" isn't your typical "I want" song and, narratively, is more of a 'set-up' song than most "I want" songs are... hence why I think it works best as the first major song of the show.

As an aside, "Maybe" from Annie is another example of an "I want" song that serves as narrative 'set-up' and wouldn't really work if placed anywhere other than as the first major song in that show.

#37

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 12:34pm

Interesting point, and your right about the Annie song.

There was a UK tour a couple of years back, starring Marti Pellow and they placed "I Need To Know" immediately after the Board of Governor's scene and I felt it worked. Though in all actuality I believe the point is made without the song and it can be cut as on Broadway, but I do like hearing it.

And, this is a question I've always had, and why not ask it here. Why does everyone like "Bring on the Men?" Yes, I feel "Good and Evil" is a bit on the nose but then we loose "No One Knows Who I Am," which is a great song and is a great introduction to Lucy's character. The song was greatly missed in the 2012 tour and revival.

#38

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 1:26pm

As far as including both "Good 'N Evil" and "Bring on the Men", the former serves to further Jekyll's quest and give him the inspiration for doing what he does (which is why it's never made sense to me to use Bring on the Men as a replacement for it)

Bring on the Men was never a replacement for Good 'N' Evil. It was the reverse. And we've already had this explanation for Jekyll's motivation in both I Need to Know and the Board of Governor's scenes. Good 'N' Evil is just redundant, which is why it was cut after the world premiere in the first place. Probably because I Need to Know was replaced. There is really no point in using both songs. Bring on the Men is far more effective as a cabaret number and the second act really doesn't require another one. It just eats up time without adding anything substantive to the plot.

In other words, I Need to Know explains WHAT Jekyll wants, and Lost in the Darkness explains WHY he wants what he wants.

Originally, Lost in the Darkness was explained by a short book scene with just a few lines which was all that was ever needed.

The songs that got cut like "I Need to Know" and "Girls of the Night" are great, but they don't forward the action, they tells us things that we already know and they make an already long show even longer.

When it was just I Need to Know at the top of the show, it was actually the introduction to Jekyll's entire motivation, so it wasn't anything anyone heard before.

The purpose of "Good 'N Evil", narratively, is to give Jekyll the inspiration for developing the formula that he does (as I noted earlier).

The Broadway book gives Jekyll a line about the song helping him. More specifically, helping him come to the realization that he has to use himself as a test subject, but it is not an element that the plot requires.

Which really doesn't make sense given the lyrics. It's a cheeky song about the justification of choosing "evil" over "good", which is not what Jekyll is doing. It's a huge stretch to tie the song to his actions and shoehorning it into that scene never really worked.

Why does everyone like "Bring on the Men?" Yes, I feel "Good and Evil" is a bit on the nose but then we loose "No One Knows Who I Am," which is a great song and is a great introduction to Lucy's character.

I haven't seen the incarnations since the Broadway production, but originally, it was just a stunning production number that added energy and brevity to the first act. No One Knows Who I Am worked beautifully as a follow-up to Girls of the Night, which added dimension to Lucy and the other girls. Not to mention its placement in the second act added balance to the use of Sympathy Tenderness in the first act.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#39

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 2:32pm

The reason "Good 'N Evil" works, narratively, is because, without it, you never get any explanation for how Jekyll decides to create a formula that exposes people's dual natures. "I Need to Know" tells you that that is what he wants to do, but, without "Good 'N Evil" you don't see how or when he comes to the conclusion that it's possible to accomplish that goal with a chemical formula.

#40

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 3:15pm

The reason "Good 'N Evil" works, narratively, is because, without it, you never get any explanation for how Jekyll decides to create a formula that exposes people's dual natures.

We don't really need an explanation, seeing as he's already created it at that point. It's really kind of hard to miss it. We have the scene with his dad setting up his motivation, and then we've got the Board of Governors where we discover what he intends to do about his dad's problem: he's come up with this formula he hopes will fix it, and that he hopes has long-term ramifications for treatment, but the Hospital Board isn't willing to take the risk. ("I'm close to finding the key to duality / Chemical formulae..." -- he's already been experimenting with this method, he's not coming to some great decision to make one.)

Do we really need a number in a brothel exploring the philosophical nature of what he's doing (which is essentially what it really is)? It's not like the lyrics particularly inspire him to use the formula on himself either. I'm sure it served a purpose in its slot several versions before Broadway as a song for the club owner, but clearly it was cut for a reason, and though it had a brief Broadway return, I think it's time "Good 'N Evil" was put to bed.

Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05

Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky, Seb28

Updated On: 10/28/14 at 03:15 PM

#41

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 3:32pm

We don't really need an explanation, seeing as he's already created it at that point.

Exactly.

I'm sure it served a purpose in its slot several versions before Broadway as a song for the club owner, but clearly it was cut for a reason

It was cut because it truly didn't serve a purpose.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#42

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:07pm

Exactly.

In fact, Mister Matt, correct me on this point if I'm wrong, but even in the '97 Broadway version, which cut the sung material about that right out of the Board of Governors scene, doesn't he still say in the long spoken preamble that he's already been experimenting with a formula? I'm pretty sure he does. That's, like, near impossible to miss.

Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05

Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky, Seb28

#43

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:14pm

About Jekyll's formula: I've always been under the impression that he creates it shortly before injecting it into himself, particularly since he calls it "the newly fused formula" in "First Transformation".

Updated On: 10/28/14 at 04:14 PM

#44

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:20pm

He prepares a mixture of the formula he's using in that scene, and maybe the ingredients are a different fusion, but I'm pretty sure it's well implied that he's been experimenting with this method for some time in all versions of the show.

Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05

Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky, Seb28

#45

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:29pm

I believe the MTI libretto (or one of the various librettos) has stage directions indicating that Jekyll actually retrieves a vial from his medical bag and shows the formula to the governors in the board room scene.

In the Broadway version Jekyll tells the governors that his formula is a combination of rare drugs precisely combined, indicating that it already exists.

In the Broadway version when he talks to Lucy about her song inspiring him he says "we all have choices to make" and that she has inspired him to be a doctor and a patient. He's talking about the song inspiring him to test the formula on himself. The song was never indicated to inspire him to create the formula. In both versions it already exists at that point.

#46

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:31pm

Thank you, CATSNYrevival. That's what I thought. (And wow, what a crappy justification for writing "Good 'N Evil" back into the show on that creative team's part.)

Formerly gvendo2005
Broadway Legend
joined: 5/1/05

Blocked: After Eight, suestorm, david_fick, emlodik, lovebwy, Dave28282, joevitus, BorisTomashevsky, Seb28

Updated On: 10/28/14 at 04:31 PM

#47

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 4:36pm

In the Broadway version he also mentions experiments on animals and that he's now ready to test his formula on a human subject. There's no doubt that the formula has already been created. He calls it newly fused in the transformation scene because that's what it is. He just created a newly fused formula to inject himself with instead of perhaps using one of the older serums that were fused who knows how long ago.

#48

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 5:42pm

And wow, what a crappy justification for writing "Good 'N Evil" back into the show on that creative team's part.

I still want to know how they justified the costumes and choreography for that number on Broadway. It was worse than the umbrella dance.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#49

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 6:07pm

It was definitely a mismatch of themes. The Red Rat was done up with a sea side theme because it was located in the East End near the docks. There was a large sea shell under at least one of the tables and Lucy was dressed as a sexy Pirate. The other girls were dressed in show girl outfits and I don't even know what to call the outfits the guys were wearing but one of them had devil horns. They were each dressed in either light or dark so good or evil. Maybe it was supposed to be as if they put the act together themselves and did a poor job of it? I don't know.

Updated On: 10/28/14 at 06:07 PM

#50

The * ideal * Jekyll & Hyde: A discussion

Posted: 10/28/14 at 6:49pm

"In the Broadway version when he talks to Lucy about her song inspiring him he says 'we all have choices to make' and that she has inspired him to be a doctor and a patient. He's talking about the song inspiring him to test the formula on himself. The song was never indicated to inspire him to create the formula. In both versions it already exists at that point."

So I have a question. If Good N' Evil was a replacement for Bring On the Men during the original Broadway run, then how does Bring On the Men inspire Jekyll to test the formula on himself in other versions of the show? As far as I'm aware, the entire song is chalk-full of sleazy, sexy lyrics (which, given that it's a performance number for the prostitute Lucy, makes sense), and it doesn't have any underlying meanings that would make Jekyll think, "OH! EUREKA!" I've always been confused about this part, honestly.

"Was uns befreit, das muss stärker sein als wir es sind." -Tanz der Vampire

Updated On: 10/28/14 at 06:49 PM

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