This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

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This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 8:51pm

Have you ever wondered how some people's opinion of a single performace could vary so widely. Of course everybody has different interests and everybody has their own "cup of tea", but what about speaking strictly objectively?

There have been many times when I was blown away by a performance to just see the same performance by the same cast ripped apart by critics/ posters on this board. Granted, I have never studied musical/ dramatic theatre, but it is somewhat frustrating.

I try to watch a show objectively and understand other people's criticisms but I never can and nor can I generally explain why I do or do not like a performance in the way that some people can pinpoint exact elements of a show/ actors performance which moved them.

This was somewhat hard to put into words and is more of a comment than an actual question, but it is something that I have been thinking about.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

Updated On: 4/28/08 at 08:51 PM

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 8:56pm

Two words: Young Frankenstein. I think it's the best thing on Broadway right now and it totally got smashed by critics... I also kinda don't like Spring Awakening all that much...

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 8:57pm

it's not difficult to articulate, you just didn't do the greatest job...

but seriously. I know what you're saying. that's art. that's theatre. that's music.

it's not a science. it's not a math problem. there's no right or wrong, when it comes down to it.

yes we are all VERY opinionated but it's all about perspective and interpretation. I think something is "trash" and you think it's a "masterpiece"

It's just part of theatre. I know I become very opinionated about things so I always throw that concept out the window... but there's no WRONG way of doing theatre.

it's whatever you want or enjoy or believe in.

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 8:59pm

MAMMA MIA! anyone?

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:03pm

Patti LuPone, hate the woman, but hey some people seem to like her!

Well I didn't want to get into it, but he's a Satanist. Every full moon he sacrifices 4 puppies to the Dark Lord and smears their blood on his paino. This should help you understand the score for Wicked a little bit more. Tazber's: Reply to Is Stephen Schwartz a Practicing Christian

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:06pm

That's why it's art. Why do we fall in love? Why are some people happy to be accountants and others need to jump out of airplanes to feel alive?

It's human nature. Just because you aren't "educated" about theater doesn't mean your opinion is wrong. If something (or someone) moves you, it moves you, pure and simple.

EVEN if someone else's arguments MAKE SENSE...doesn't mean you have agree. I can be objective: performances were good, but still disliked the production. It's still just an opinion.

Relax and enjoy...no matter what "everyone else" says.

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:06pm

toodarnhot- How could I have articulated this more clearly if you don't mind me asking? I really am trying to become more skilled at writing clearly and fluently. I know you aren't a writing professor (or at least I am guessing) but I wouldn't mind a few pointers.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:10pm

Paragraph breaks are fun.

"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:15pm

LizzyCurry- good point and sorry, I'm just lazy about paragraphs

dramamamma611- thanks. I think I needed to hear (or read lol) that.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

#10

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:28pm

I agree and I think that this year seems to be more polarizing than most based on what I read here.

#11

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:32pm

I'm glad to know that it isn't just me.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

#12

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:46pm

I've actually thought a lot about this question...

I think it's because at its heart, theater is trying to affect the thoughts and emotions of its audience. It's not like a math problem where if you do the equation correctly, you come up with the right answer, different things affect different people differently. I actually think that on this board, once you get past people's passionate reactions (such as "Enough with "Wicked" already!") you actually get a pretty accurate idea of the show's merit - in that many people with different opinions can discuss their views - views that are based on emotion and intellect.

My problem tends to be with the Critics. I find that they go into a show with SUCH an analytical, technical viewpoint that they can't always see past it to the heart of what's going on. I think that's what happened with "Wicked." Pretty much all the Critics saw was what was lacking technically, and they missed the heart of what the show was trying to say. (This isn't meant to be a defense of "Wicked", just an analogy.)

Madame Morrible: "So you take the chicken, now it must be a white chicken. The corpse can be any color. And that is the spell for lost luggage!" - The Yellow Brick Road Not Taken

#13

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 9:55pm

Elphie3- good point. I understand how different shows can reach different people in different and personal ways emotionally. What I've had a problem with was when people try to critique shows analytically.

For example, when people critique certain technical aspects of an actor's dancing it is often above my head. This is also often the case when people dissect an actor's voice by calling it flat or analyzing which notes they've reached at certain points or when an actor is "breathy". I'm often left thinking "well, it sounded fine to me".

For dramatic performances, people will often critique with comments such as "so and so did not understand their role" or the like. I often have a difficult time understanding how these types of judgments are made.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

Updated On: 4/27/08 at 09:55 PM

#14

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:02pm

I totally understand where you're coming from.

I think the problem is the more you REALLY know about theater and how it's done, the more you're aware of what's technically good and what's not. It's a blessing and a curse. I think it's the same problem with some Critics. They know SO much about theater that they can't go in and truly view something as an audience member anymore. Likewise someone who hasn't spent YEARS in school for music, etc. isn't going to realize that chorus member number five was slightly flat.

I say, don't worry about it. It's an age old problem: the more you know, the more it takes to impress you. If you enjoy something that's all that matters.

Madame Morrible: "So you take the chicken, now it must be a white chicken. The corpse can be any color. And that is the spell for lost luggage!" - The Yellow Brick Road Not Taken

#15

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:31pm

Thanks elphie, that really does help. My interest in theatre started late so I never had the formal training many other people on these threads have had.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

#16

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:36pm

I started to have the same problem of being far too judgmental after having seen so many productions, but really if a performance was entertaining, who really cares what critics think? Though some people may not agree, the first and foremost purpose of theatre is to entertain.

Tick Tock

#17

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:51pm

We have a critic here in Buffalo, if he raves about a film, I know I will hate it, If he doesn't like it then I know I will.

It Sucks To Be Me

#18

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:53pm

Yeah, if you like something, don't feel embarrassed to like it. Theater is pretty much like a movie, except done live and it lasts longer in most cases. Yeah, pretty much I go to shows thinking they will be fun, or if there is something about it that makes me want to see it. I know Mamma Mia is not a popular show here, but I just love the music, and the cast was fantastic when I saw it. :)

And again, the technical aspects of things can definitely ruin your percerption of how things can be. I'm aweful with television and probably movies now. I've done production work a tiny bit in both, mostly amateur stuff, but I definitely try to study everything now and figure out how they were filmed and what not. It's sort of fun, but also frustrating to care, because sometimes I just like to sit and watch.

"I don't want the pretty lights to come and get me."-Homecoming 2005 "You can't pray away the gay."-Callie Torres on Grey's Anatomy. Ignored Users: suestorm, N2N Nate., Owen22, master bates

#19

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:56pm

i hear ya on that one.
and its weird some of my friends and i have the same favorite shows but there will randomly be one that some one loves and everyone else hates, its odd. this doesnt just pertain to theatre though, its true about most things.

<-- Gwen Stewart, SOLoist at the last show of RENT
Cages or wings? Which do you prefer? Ask the birds. Fear or love, baby? Don't say the answer Actions speak louder than words. (Tick, Tick... BOOM!)

#20

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 10:59pm

It's called an 'OPINION'.

They are like butt holes.

Everyone has one and they all stink.

"TheatreDiva90016 - another good reason to frequent these boards less."<<>> “I hesitate to give this line of discussion the validation it so desperately craves by perpetuating it, but the light from logic is getting further and further away with your every successive post.” <<>> -whatever2

#21

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 11:02pm

lmao TheatreDiva, that was great.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

#22

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 11:16pm

Really, the best critics summarize a show in such a way that you can decide whether or not it is something you would be interested in seeing. Some critics however, seem to be on a power trip, like there is something about themselves that's lacking and they take joy in controlling others' destinies. At least it sometimes seems that way.

As the old saying goes:

De gustibus non est disputandum.

#23

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/27/08 at 11:21pm

Well put KrissySim!

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

#24

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/28/08 at 4:57am

Theater is pretty much like a movie, except done live and it lasts longer in most cases.

Marianne2- I disagree with your comment. Theater is pretty much NOT like a movie.
There are stories that work best in the theatre and others that work best as a movie. Our Town should have never been turned into a movie. It doesn't work. Gone with the Wind should have never been turned into a play or a musical. There have been two Gone with the Wind musicals, both are awful.

Theatre is an actor's medium; film is a director's medium.

#25

re: This is sort of diffiult to articulate..

Posted: 4/28/08 at 7:19am

A Director: I think Marianne's analogy between theatre and film only applied to the way in which different people's perception of each can vary widely, with or without a formal training in the production of these mediums.

"Perhaps, when we remember wars, we should take off our clothes and paint ourselves blue and go on all fours all day long and grunt like pigs." Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

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