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"Victor/Victoria"

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#1

"Victor/Victoria"

Posted: 2/17/05 at 1:30am

I saw this show on Broadway with the original cast, and just absolutely fell in love with it, and thought it was such a well constructed piece of theatre. I watched the video of the Broadway production the other day, and it just reminded me of how great it really was. When checking online, I was shocked to see that it was only nominated for one Tony Award (Julie Andrews,) and nothing else. Perhaps I fell in love with this show for personal reasons, but would anyone on this board care to share their opinions about why it wasn't nominated for more awards? How was it received, critically? Thanks a lot!

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#2

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 2:09am

Egregiously overlooked indeed. Rachel York's failure to score a nomination is bewidering unless the committee figured she had stolen Lesley Anne Warren's performance holus bolus. I would have thought costumes and choreography were also worthy of a nod. Sounds suspiciously like politics to me. And before everyone weighs in to say what a piece of garbage the whole thing was, that farcical second act door slamming scene was expertly conceived and executed.

#3

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 2:13am

I agree - that "Cat and Mouse" scene was brilliant. Blake Edwards is one of the best directors, and he should have been nominated as well - unless the fact that he directed the movie would have something to do with eligibility. I thought the lighting was great, the sets were great, and I thought (aside from Julie,) that Tony Roberts and Rachel York were wonderful. And not even for best musical? I was shocked.

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#4

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 7:55am

Especially when you compare it to a lot of the garbage that does get nominated. The Tony's, like all awards, are a joke!

scooter3843

#5

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:19am

It's been a long time, but if memory serves, it was seen as a bit of a vanity production, hence, the nominating committee was probably biased against it. Andrews was nominated because - well, she'd be nominated for standing onstage picking her nose. And it's quite possible she would have won, had she not decided to pout and loudly pull out of the race because her husband's show was overlooked - which made no sense - better business for a production to win one Tony than none at all, wouldn't you think?

V/V was good - not great. It definitely had slow moments. Rachel York should have been nominated, I agree, but I don't remember off the top of my head what the competition was.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

Updated On: 2/17/05 at 10:19 AM

#6

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:35am

I also enjoyed the show (saw it twice) and own the DVD. While it may not have been the best musical to ever grace the Braodway stage, it certainly deserved more than the one nomination it received. Especially in light of some of the crap that's been nominated in the past. I can't remember what shows were nominated that year (and it's too early and I'm too lazy to look it up), but I'd bet that there was at least one that was less deserving of it's nomination. I'm sure politics had a lot to do with it. From what I understand, Mr. Edwards is not the most beloved individual within theatre circles.

There is nothing like returning to a place that remains unchanged to find the ways in which you yourself have altered. - Nelson Mandela

Updated On: 2/17/05 at 10:35 AM

#7

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:49am

From what I recall, the sentiment was that an utterly charming and winning movie was turned into a darkly cynical and money-grubbing stage piece. However, most people seem to have forgotten how cynical the movie actually was and only focused on its charm.

I also remember some scuttlebutt about the previews when some of Wildhorn's additional songs were in/out/in/out and were considered crass and crude.

All that to say, although I think Julie Andrews is the epitome of class, she went too far by turning down her nomination. She definitely would have won over Donna Murphy.

#8

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:54am

It didn't receive more nominations because the show was absolutely terrible. Julie couldn't sing - and this was before her botched surgery. The only other actor in the show who should've been nominated was Rachel York who was terrificly funny, although she is really just doing an impression of Lesley Ann Warren. The music was awful and the show managed to get by as long as it did because of Julie Andrews. My opinion.

The truly beautiful should be lawfully restricted from wearing clothing; and the truly butt-ugly should be lawfully mandated from going naked.

#9

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 10:56am

It's true that her voice was already going way downhill - and I also had quite a bit of trouble swallowing that ANYONE would believe her as a man. Somehow she could pull it off in the film, but not onstage.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

#10

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 11:21am

i liked the show....i thought it was a good entertainment....the show got bad reviews i remember....and then julie andrews had the problem with her voice ,and then liza minnelli replaced her and left the show after like 2 weeks...and then raquel welch took over.the show seemed to have a lot of problems.

"People have their opinions and that doesn't mean that their opinions are wrong or right. I just take it with a grain of salt because opinions are like as*holes, everyone has one". -Felicia Finley-

#11

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 11:40am

While V/V was not a perfect show, it was a lot of fun to watch. The performances were strong and engaging, and the production values were great - sets, costumes, choreography, and orchestration. As others have said earlier, Rachel York was a particular treat. I also enjoyed Tony Roberts and Greg Jbara a great deal. There was a real sense of mischief to the stage version that seemed to come from the rapport the actors had with each other. The chemistry was quite good.

Regarding the character of Norma, I know a lot of people have said that Rachel York ripped off Lesley Ann Warren's performance, but I disagree. I own the DVD of the stage production and recently saw the movie version again. While the Chicago floozy accents were similar, the character interpretations were different in a number of ways. Rachel gave Norma more of an edge, plus her performance was much more dynamic. Lesley Ann Warren was more kittenish while Rachel was more crass. Rachel's "Chicago, Illinois," was also soooo much better than LAW's - a real "sell it" production number. Overall I thought Rachel gave the role much more dimension and laugh-out-loud humor than her predecessor did. I think she did a great job improving upon an iconic performance and making Norma her own character. She definitely should have been nominated for a Tony for V/V.

The major irony is that Rachel's performance is probably better remembered today because she was robbed of a Tony than it would be if she had won. Can anyone name the actress who won the Tony for best featured in a musical that year (without going to Google)? I can't.

lc

#12

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 11:44am

How many Best Featured Actress winners can you name from any given year anyway?

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

#13

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 11:45am

Ann Duquesnay won for BRING IN 'DA NOISE, which I think is a sin. She was against Joohee Choi for THE KING AND I, Veanne Cox for COMPANY, and Idina Menzel for RENT. Rachel York should have been among them, and should have won.

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#14

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 11:49am

Rath,

My point exactly. People can remember Rachel York's performance as a non-nominee, but it's hard to remember any winners in that category from any year. (With the exception of munk, that is! Way to go.)

lc

#15

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 12:14pm

Well I have long been bitter about that! I understand most of the nominees, but Veanne Cox was pretty random.

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#16

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 1:53pm

In the book BIG - the making of a Broadway musical ------ the author states that during the season of BIG and VICTOR/VICTORIA, the Tony award committee "had an agenda."

According to the book's writer, the Tony committee "wanted to send a message" that they were "underenthused" by Broadway musicals based on hit movies.

VICTOR/VICTORIA certainly at least deserved a nomination for Rachel York's performance in addition to the nomination for Julie Andrews.

Munkustrap178, You liked the show alot more than I did. But wasn't it always a magical experience to see Julie Andrews perform live?

I found Tony Robert's performance particularly uninspired and very damaging to the show.

"Blow out the candles Robert and make a wish. Want something, want SOMETHING."

Updated On: 2/17/05 at 01:53 PM

#17

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 2:35pm

An agenda, indeed. There was a lot of press at the time about this situation and the consensus at the time was that "Broadway" just didn't like this show. I saw it twice and thought that for all it's flaws, it was an evening well-spent. Just seeing Julie Andrews sing live, on stage was worth the money and I thought a couple of the new songs were terriffic (The Louis XVI number that I think ended up getting cut was, in my opinion, a show-stopper).

While it wasn't the best show of the year, it certainly was one of the best and it's virtual shut out at the Tonys was pretty inexplicable. Julie Andrews speech declining the nomination was a landmark in Tony History and I think did it's part to cast an unfavorable light on the nominating committe and their dark deeds. To nominate two very obscure (and I believe closed) shows over V/V did indeed smack of them having some sort of agenda.

Of Course the Tony Committee still pulls this kind of crap. Remember in 2000 that Aida was shut out of the Best Musical category in favor of "James Joyce's The Dead" and "Swing!". And in that year, with the controversy over whether "Contact" was really a musical, I think had it been nominated, it would have won.

As Elton John no doubt remarked, "Bitter, bitter queens!"

#18

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 2:47pm

the Louis number was in both times i saw it... i wish they had been able to stage "The Shady Dame" instead...

#19

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:03pm

I love this show. It's a farce, obviously. but it's brilliant. the music is wonderful especially the songs by Frank Wildhorn no less!!! "Trust Me" and "Living in the Shadows" are two of my favorite songs from the show. I think Rachel was definitely overlooked for a Tony. "King is living with a Polish Fairy!!!" yeah... anyway... I have the DVD. I watch it frequently because it's just one of those shows that never fails to make me laugh and it's always a pleasure. it does have a bit of an odd production history and I would give anything to see Liza Minnelli in the role if for nothing else to just see Liza Minnelli doing anything at all really. Also I'd really like to hear the song she sang in place of "Crazy World". I think it was called "Who Can I Tell?". and also the song "Attitude" that replaced "Luis Says" for the TUTS production. are these songs recorded anywhere??? that would be neat to hear.

also the show turns 10 this year on October 25th so happy 10th anniversary to the show and all involved!!!

#20

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:17pm

I agree with Joe that Louis Says was fantastic and never should have been cut. Liza didn't "leave" the show, she was hired for a two-week engagement while Andrews was on vacation. I saw both Liza and Julie and Liza was far superior in all aspects of the role. I also agree that Rachel York deserved a nomination that year. It was one of the few years I saw just about every nominated musical and the awards for both females were truly the best performances. Ann Dusquenay tore up the stage as the only female in Noise/Funk delivering a variety of styles of music through an assortment of characters. Her acting was flawless and her singing was electrifying. Julie Andrews turned in a watered-down version of her film performance, but much weaker vocally. Liza kicked everything up a notch and her magnetic personality commanded the audience's attention. She was hot! And I'm not really a Liza fan. Donna Murphy was sheer sophistication and elegance in The King and I and her performance was exquisite. She made the part her own without having to resort to gimmicks or stylization of the character. Joohee Choi made the most of her small part in the show and was great, but how she received a nomination over Rachel York baffles me. And I have never seen Veanne Cox turn in a performance that wasn't brilliant. She's not a strong singer, but she can go from hilarious deadpan comedy to heartwrenching pain on a dime with seamless perfection. I'm still flabbergasted she was never nominated for The Dinner Party (Penny Fuller???) or Caroline, or Change.

"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

#21

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:19pm

I really loved the show as well.

Can anyone paraphrase or know where I can find what Julie Andrews' said declining the nomination? I hadn't heard of that until yesterday, and I was shocked.

The Louis number was in it when I saw it, as well.

Joe: I agree with you about the committe pulling all sorts of crap, but I don't feel that AIDA was deserving of a Tony Nomination over shows like CONTACT, THE DEAD, SWING, etc. I thought SWING! was absolutely delightful, THE DEAD was wonderful, and CONTACT was brilliant. I forget what else was nominated, but I absolutely hated AIDA. I think it's a great great score, but a terrible terrible show, so it won best score deservedly.

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#22

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:25pm

Julie Andrews was the only person associated with V/V who was nominated. She made a speech saying that she could not accept the nomiantion seeing that so many of the other great talents associated with the show had been (Wait for it....here it comes!): "EGREGIOUSLY OVERLOOKED."

I am glad to be part of a discussion that will return that phrase to it's place of honor among theatre fans.....

#23

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:27pm

I saw that on Larry King. that was neat that they had it on film... touching moment after the bows and everything...

Updated On: 2/17/05 at 03:27 PM

#24

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:28pm

I would really love to see a video of that. Although I don't think it was very smart of her, it's certainly admirable.

"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson

#25

re: 'Victor/Victoria'

Posted: 2/17/05 at 3:35pm

"so many of the other great talents associated with the show.." Yeah - every talent who was named Blake Edwards.

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

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